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I'm Gonna Throw This Out There!

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CowboyRoy, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. sonnyboy

    sonnyboy Benched

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    You're obsessed with statistics my friend. Answer these very simple questions.

    Is it easier to pass against a defense when it's certain you are going to run?

    Is it easier to defend the pass when your not playing the run. Two deep safties, bump and run underneath and 4-5 pass rushers ripping up the field, getting after the QB?
  2. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    We're not going to get a better quarterback midseason and would have a difficult time finding a better one in the offseason.

    What we need is the quarterback we have to play better, our receivers to play better, the line to pass block better, the defense to pass rush better and/or the linebackers and secondary to defend the pass better -- whatever it takes to pass better than our opponent in the game. If we do that, we will win the vast majority of our games. That's how you win in the NFL.
  3. Zman5

    Zman5 Well-Known Member

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    Romo's QB rating for the season is 78.8. But his QB rating for the season when throwing a play action pass is 135.4. That's a huge difference.

    Call more play action pass. That's one way of having your QB play better.

    But in order for the play action to work well, we have to run better. Bottom line is, we run better, Romo can pass better if our OC knows what he is doing.
  4. jobberone

    jobberone Genetically engineered moderating Orangutan Staff Member

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    Now this post is totally on target and absolutely correct. If you add it doesn't matter if you run well or stop the run then you're wrong. The team that passes better, defends the pass better, and plays sound football will win almost all the time. But you have to be able to run the ball effectively in a vertical offense or you are going to have problems passing the ball effectively.
  5. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    Whatever effects running the ball well has on being able to pass well, it is minimal. And whether you run the ball well or poorly, you can still pass it better than your opponent. If there was a correlation between running well and passing well, or between running well and winning, it would be evident -- but it's not.
  6. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    That's a nice theory, but there's no evidence of that to any significant degree, if at all. You don't need to run the ball or stop the run better than your opponent in order to pass the ball and stop the pass better than your opponent.
  7. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    Maybe not statistically. But the eyeball test doesn't support that I don't think.
  8. jayhouston12

    jayhouston12 New Member

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    The cowboys can win the rest of their games if they do one important thing

    Stop trying to beat two teams in one game. The NFL was not designed for you to beat yourself then beat the other team. We can't beat the Dallas Cowboys then beat the Atlanta Falcons in one game.

    we have to beat the falcons and only the falcons, because this new brand of football where you beat yourself then the other team has been tested and no team won a superbowl playing this brand of football.....you'd be better running the georgia tech triple option to your way to a superbowl than playing dallas cowboy football
  9. VACowboy

    VACowboy Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I don't think running the ball has much to do with it (Baltimore).

    The team is 4th and 7th in defense and offense but 15th and 23rd in points given up and scored. If this team would stop turning the ball over, committing dumb penalties and making stupid game management decisions, it could win some games.
  10. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Running the ball would be great, but this team has shown an inability to score, whether they can run or not.

    What matters is getting points and not turning the ball over. The Cowboys would be competitive if they can stop spotting the opponents easy points and take advantage of their own opportunities to get points.
  11. jobberone

    jobberone Genetically engineered moderating Orangutan Staff Member

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    Not a theory. It's just the philosophy of a vertical offense.

    There is no statistical evidence other than looking at how defenses countered the vertical offense and how those defenses did. While there are more than a few variations on the vertical offense (West Coast, Martz, Bellichik, Saunders, Gibbs, yada) they all have to be able to run the ball to be able to execute their offense optimally. There is tons of evidence out there. You're just looking in the wrong place for it. And every team that's ever set foot on a football field needs to effectively run the ball in short yardage and goal line situations.

    Most people here have zero idea about how we run our offense.
  12. jayhouston12

    jayhouston12 New Member

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    If we traded our turnovers for 3 and outs i think we could win games 16-10 or 6-3
  13. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Yep. It's the flip side of the 'pass the ball better than the other guys' part of the equation. If you can't pass effectively against a team b/c of their rush, you have to run it past them to protect against mistakes in the passing game and hope your own pass defense can make their passing game even worse than yours is.

    If you can pass better than the mediocre teams, and avoid passing game mistakes against the good ones, all while defending the pass well, you've got a shot in this league. It's easier said than done, but it's what it takes to win right now. We're seeing some teams adjust to that by gearing up pass rushes and bolstering their running games.
  14. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Yep. Sucks.

    And if we had Costa and Murray in the lineup for any extended time, and kept up passing to Witten, we could probably even do better than that.

    I expect, too, that that's what we'll see once Murray's in the lineup and our schedule loosens up a bit. And I think we'll get on a decent run doing it. Except now, we'll need help to have the Giants slip, because we put ourselves in a big hole with that loss on Sunday.
  15. casmith07

    casmith07 I'm the best poster in the game!

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    I agree usually, but I disagree this year. Teams know that we're so abysmal running the ball that when they see run, they sell-out to stuff it. That's why despite barely rushing at all, play-action works for us...they see run and bite, thinking they can get an easy TFL.
  16. WV Cowboy

    WV Cowboy Waitin' on the 6th

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    I am down on the Cowboys right now. I am so disappointed in what I see when I watch them.

    In the first quarter of the Giants game I wondered if they ever even practice.

    But I will say this, ... if they can stop beating themselves with penalties and turnovers, .. I think we can play with anybody. I do.

    But having said that, after what I have been seeing, I don't think it will happen. We just can't get out of our own way.

    To feel that we have the talent, but can't stop shooting ourselves in the foot is extremely frustrating.
  17. VACowboy

    VACowboy Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Maybe I don't know how we run our offense, but I do know we're 7th in the league in yards gained but 23rd in scoring. Despite a turnover deficit of 11 (31st) and being 29th in the league in number of possessions per game, we're still 2nd in TOP. The team moves the ball fine; it just doesn't put points on the board. Is this because we don't run the ball well? Maybe in some small part, but my guess is that turnovers and penalties have a hell of a lot more to do with it.

    But this isn't even the real issue, IMHO. The Dallas Cowboys have moved the ball and kept the other team from doing likewise well enough to win. They just keep setting up opposing offenses by turning the ball over, killing their own drives with penalties and tossing away opportunities to win by playing dumb football and making terrible decisions in critical situations.
  18. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    So show me where there is any evidence beyond a minimal effect. The correlation between running success and passing success, or between stopping the run and stopping the pass, is very low.


    I've said many times that short yardage is the only time how well you run really matters. And even then, all that matters is converting before you run out of downs.
  19. AdamJT13

    AdamJT13 Salary Cap Analyst

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    No, the play-action pass can work even if you're terrible at running -- as your own stats show. It's successful based more on formation, down-and-distance and execution than it is on how well you run the ball.
  20. Nunez21

    Nunez21 Active Member

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    Exactly. In my opinion we should pound the rock more often and stop being afraid of punting the ball. We are playing great defense this year and causing alot of 3 and outs ourselves! Even when we turn the ball over in our side of the field it seems most of the time we held for field goals.

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