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Importance of Forty times for Cornerbacks

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by xwalker, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I did some analysis of NFL Cornerbacks after the 2010 season.

    Here is a comparison of the measureables for what was considered by most as the top 10 Cornerbacks of the 2010 season.

    Forty times might be overrated for most positions, but not for Cornerbacks, IMO.

    There really is a reason that you want draft prospects at CB to have sub-4.5 forty times.

    http://www.walker-texas.com/2010-top-cornerbacks-data.jpg
  2. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Walker, could you take the 40 and subtract the 20 and add it to your sheet to measure top end speed? Did any of those guys have 60 yard shuttles? Great data and Champ Bailey is an amazing athlete.
  3. dallasfaniac

    dallasfaniac Active Member

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    <cough>Joe Haden</cough>

    I could compile a list of CBs timed at 4.35 or less that either failed at the NFL or weren't even drafted and another list of CBs that ran 4.5 range and were pro bowlers. Fact is, either you can ball or you can't. Speed is nice, being able to use what speed you have is better. Nice work though.
  4. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Well, speed is important but some guys just can't show their speed in a track setting. But put pads on them in a football game and they run like a deer.

    I don't think the 40 is all that important but recovery speed is definitely important for a defensive back.
  5. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    Joe Haden ran a 4.45 & 4.48 at his Florida Pro Day which was much better than the 4.6 speed he had at the Combine. Bottom line is the kid is fast.

    Some players know how to run a 40 and some don't, that is why scouts use game tape primarily to rate prospects.
  6. dallasfaniac

    dallasfaniac Active Member

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    There's a reason almost every single player times better at their pro days than they do at the combine, lol.

    The reason these guys are the best at their position has more to do with how they play than how fast they run. Starting with jamming at the line, they use the sidelines, can feel where the receiver is even when they're looking for the ball, anticipate routes, run the routes better than the receivers, etc.

    Speed really only helps when you can't stick in the receivers pocket and have to play catch up.
  7. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    When running track (as the combine style 40s are), track tricks and techniques come into play. How you come off the blocks is very important. It's worked on by every track sprinter, and by those football players who practice at the special pre-combine workshops. Doesn't have tremendous application on the field though.

    Herschall Walker was on the US Olympic Bobsled team strictly on the strength of his ability to give them a powerfully dynamic starting push.

    The 40 does have the advantage of giving every player a standardized test.

    Cornerbacks should actually have a timed test where they run backwards for 20 yards! Though that's covered more under the drills section of combine workouts.
  8. SDogo

    SDogo Not as good as I once was but as good once as I ev

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    Actually the number scouts watch closely with CB's in the 20yard shuttle for obvious reasons.

    Consider CB Leonard Johnson this year, a player the Cowboys really like and is gaining some steam with several clubs. You would think a 4.66 40 at the combine would of hurt his stock but what scouts liked was a respectable 4.17 20 yard shuffle, a number which he repeated at his proday.
  9. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I updated the chart to include (40 yrd - 20 yrd) times. Also, I included a calculation of their average MPH from 20 yards to 40 yards.

    http://www.walker-texas.com/2010-top-cornerbacks-data.jpg
  10. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see the list of Pro Bowl CBs that had 4.5+ Forty times.

    I'm not saying that it is not true, I'm just interested in seeing the list.
  11. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Recovery speed implies a mistake - speed and coverage ability...being a football player, still dominates at the professional levels. Recovery is a bad concept, unless one is a safety.
  12. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Revis and nnamdi have rare speed to be more than 200 lbs.
  13. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Speed certainly didn't hinder Daryll Green or Champ Bailey.

    By the way, Daryll Green, a former A&I grad, ran a 4.43 at the age of 50.
  14. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    What the data does/does not indicate to me is:

    Running a Sub 4.5 forty = Unknown probability that a player becomes a quality starting CB.

    Not Running a Sub 4.5 forty = Low probability that a player becomes a quality starting CB.


    FYI - If I'm looking at a current draftable player who's Pro Day forty is better than his Combine forty, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and use the better time.
  15. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    I'm with you. Maybe things were different back when you could maul WRs all over the field, but that was a long time ago now.
  16. dallasfaniac

    dallasfaniac Active Member

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    Well lets see, this last pro bowl alone featured Charles Tillman and Brandon Browner. Tillman's fastest time I could find was 4.49 although some sites said 4.53 and Browner was clocked at 4.63 but whatever, maybe we can grab Morris Claiborne in one of the later rounds. :rolleyes:
  17. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I do think that bigger CBs can somewhat offset being slower due to their size. Especially in press coverage. Brandon Browner is 6-4, 221 and plays overly physical to compensate for lack of speed.

    Seahawks RCB Brandon Browner leads the NFL in pass interference penalties this season. Browner, a Pro Bowl alternate, has been flagged six times for pass interference, three times for illegal contact, and four times for defensive holding. While Browner's stiff-hipped game has resulted in a high number of penalties, the Seahawks primarily use press coverage on defense, which benefits his physical style of play. A former CFL standout, Browner is tied for fourth in the NFL with six interceptions
  18. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Both those teams play a ton of 2 deep zone. A slower corner can thrive in that system like Ty Law.

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