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Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Star4Ever, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. GoCowboysGo

    GoCowboysGo Active Member

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    First post aimed at me! Welcome to the forum!

    But I'm talking about through the 80's. Murchison's failure to sign and upgrade the team led to the fall of the Cowboys during that decade. Many of the starters inherited from 1979 and before started falling off, etc. Instead of improving the team (improve or lose ground is what I think happens in the NFL) Murchison stood pat, bad drafts, injuries, etc kept the team from living up to the talent we had in Danny White.

    Reminds me of what's happening now with Romo, we sign stars but ignore the trenches. It's the opposite of how the Cowboys have won SB's in the past.
  2. THUMPER

    THUMPER Papa

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    That was the only team I thought of as being comparable to us.

    I would rank Unitas & Manning above Staubach and Aikman.

    Emmitt & Dorsett rank well above Dickerson & Faulk who both only played a few years with the Colts and played their best years with the Rams.

    Raymond Berry and Marvin Harrison vs Michael Irvin and Bob Hayes (you could add in Reggie Wayne for them and Drew Pearson for us). I think I would have to give the edge to the Colts at WR mostly on production. They caught a LOT of passes in their careers!

    Overall, I would give the edge to the Cowboys since we were far better at RB than the Colts and slightly lower at QB 7 WR.

    People don't think about the Rams but they have had some great QBs, RBs & WRs in their history:

    QBs: Bob Waterfield, Norm van Brocklin, Roman Gabriel, & Kurt Warner

    RB: Dan Towler, Lawrence McCutcheon, Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk, & Steven Jackson

    WRs: Jim Benton, Tom Fears, Elroy Hirsch, Red Phillips, Jack Snow, Henry Ellard, Issac Bruce, & Torry Holt

    I still think we were better at every position though.
  3. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    I frankly do not give Unitas an edge over Roger. Just my opinion
    But I agree that Manning is better then Troy was, even if not by a lot.
    WRs? Overall I think the Boys are better
    Bullett, Thrill Hill and Drew, then Irvin.
    RBs- as mentioned not even close.

    Rams had some very good QBs but not great ones.

    49rs- it is kind of close there. Montana was great of course; but i have always thought Young was over rated.

    Actually you look at the QB situation at Dallas from the beginning and I would submit we have had overall better QB play then any other team.
    Eddie LeBaron
    Don Meredith
    Craig Morton
    Roger Staubach
    Danny White
    They all followed one another with no real pause.

    Then you have a couple of years from Danny White to Troy. And we had Steve Beurlien there as well and he was no slouch.
    Then the black hole from Troy to Tony. The only real period in the Boys history when we did not have at least above average QB play for more than a year or so.
  4. THUMPER

    THUMPER Papa

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    Unitas in his prime was better than anyone except Otto Graham IMO. As good as Roger was he was never as good as Johnny U.


    I think a lot of people underestimate Waterfield and Van Brocklin because they don't have the numbers that other QBs do but they shared time at QB and were incredible as a duo. They rewrote the passing records when they played and in fact Van Brocklin STILL holds the most passing yards in a game record after nearly 60s years and even with all the rules favoring the pass the past 30+ years.

    Where we kill the rams is at RB. They had some good ones but they didn't play that long with them.

    They also had Y.A. Tittle throughout the 50s. True he had his best years at the end with the Giants in the early 60s but that was mostly because Landry had built a great defense there before he left.

    You could throw in John Brodie who was one of the best QBs in the 60s. He didn't get as many pro-bowls or all-pro nominations as he could have because he was competing against Unitas, Starr, & Jurgensen.

    I agree that we have had the best continuous (nearly) QB play of any team and that overall we would rank ahead of any other team. The 49ERs are close though with Frankie Albert-Tittle-Brodie-Plunkett-DeBerg-Montana-Young-Jeff Garcia-Alex Smith.

    That's a pretty darn good string of QBs but their RBs have been nowhere near as good as ours. They had some great ones in the 50s with: Joe Perry, Hugh McElhenny & John Henry Johnson, all 3 HoFers. Roger Craig was good but not in the same class as Dorsett or Emmitt.

    You could say we've had a string of RBs as well:

    Don Perkins-Dan Reeves/Walt Garrison-Calvin Hill-Duane Thomas-Robert Newhouse-Tony Dorsett-Herschel Walker-Emmitt Smith-...?

    After Emmitt we haven't really had a good feature RB but Murray looks like he could be the guy for us if he can stay healthy and we can open some holes for him.
  5. DMAC

    DMAC Member

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    One could consider Detriot:

    QB's
    Bobby Layne
    Dutch Clark

    RB's
    Barry Sanders
    Doak Walker

    WR's
    Calvin Johnson
    Herman Moore

    Probably still give the cowboys the edge.
  6. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    The Cowboys have a rich history with players, but I think we tend to overrate some of our own.

    RB Category probably blows everyone out of the water just because of the combination of Dorsett and Emmitt, but WR and QB...? Lots of great combinations around the league to compete with.

    I guess, what this thread is really asking is if the Cowboys have the best 'all time' team.

    I'd certainly have to put them up there, but I think the 9ers take the cake.
  7. car351

    car351 Member

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    Oh okay. When I didn't see specifics dates attached I was a lil confused. We definitely had more than enuf talent from '80 to '85 and then I think we started having the Danny White doubts with the infamous Pelleur and Hogeboom fiascos. I agree by '87 and the '88 season we had hung on too long to our older players without drafting same caliber talent. I am still in disagreement as to comparing what White inherited to what Romo has though. Just because we over rate the talent does not make it so nor does the production level pass the eye test. Romo is just now strating to get a D, just now getting his RB, maybe(and the jury's still out) has his wideouts...Whereas white had all of these positions plus both trenches in spades for an approximate 6 to 7 year time frame. Sorry about the previous post's tone, nothing personal.
  8. Star4Ever

    Star4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree. That's my point. I don't think any other franchise comes that close to "all six positions". They all fall short at one position or the other. We have been very blessed over the years (excluding the last 15 or so. LOL).
  9. Star4Ever

    Star4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Drew is Hall-of-Fame worthy. I don't think many would disagree with that. You could even substitute Bullet Bob Hayes for Drew, but I think Drew was the overall better receiver. I still don't think any other franchise has two players at each of those three positions that surpass what we've had.
  10. Star4Ever

    Star4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Again, who are their great running backs? There aren't any. The fall woefully short at that position. The question was about the team that has had the best combination of 2 QBs, RBs, and WRs. You can't exclude one of those positions to make your argument.
  11. Diogenes

    Diogenes Active Member

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    Depending on the amount of support Harrison receives, the Colts could very well end up with HOFers at all six positions five years after Manning retires.
  12. PullMyFinger

    PullMyFinger Old Fashioned

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    Pfft on the Niners

    QBs. Aikman, Staubach, White, Romo, Meridith, Morton.
    TEs. Witten, Novacek, Dupree, Cosbie, Ditka, Smith.
    WRs. TO, Irvin, Pearson, Hill, Hayes, Rentzel, Alworth, K-Mart, Williams, Glenn, Harper.
    RBs. Smith, Dorsett, Hill, Thomas, Perkins, Walker.
    FBs. Newhouse, Johnston, Garrison.

    O-linemen. Allen, Williams, Donaldson, Step, Tuinei, Newton, Gogan, Neely, Niland, Ker, Nye, Rafferty, Fitzgerald, Donovan, Scott, Wright, Gurode, Hellestrae (one of the greatest LS in NFL history)

    D-linemen. Andrie, Jeffcoat, Dutton, Cole, Ellis, Clarke, Tolbert, Lilly, Martin, Maryland, Pugh, Too Tall, Lett, Manster, Gregory, Haley, Hennings, Casillias, Bathea, Hatcher, Ratliff.

    LBs. Ware, Jordan, Coakley, Dat, Lockhart, Smith, Breunig, Edwards, Myles, Norton, Hegman, Howley, Lewis, James.

    D-backs. Deion, Pearson, Thurman, Newman, Smith, Williams, Teague, Renfro, Marion, Clinkscale, Washington, Barnes, Downs, Woodson, Waters, C Williams, R Williams, Walls, Fellows, Harris, Gaechter, Green, Bates.

    Punters. Saxon, McBriar.

    Kickers. Septien.


    Not all were great, but I dont think anyone could come up with this many Niners. And Id take these guys over their equivalents on ANY team.
  13. perrykemp

    perrykemp Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I can't resist. :)

    For the record, the Packer HOFers at those skill positions the OP listed are:

    QB: Starr (Already in), Herbner (Already in)
    HB: Lambeau (Already in), McNally (Already in), Canadeo (Already in), Hornung (Already in)
    FB: Hinkle (Already in), Jim Taylor (Already in)
    WR: Don Hutson (Already in), James Lofton (Already in)

    So they go at least two deep at each of the Hall of Fame positions today.

    Possible and/or probable future HOFers include:

    Favre (QB)
    Sharper (Safety)
    Woodson (not drafted by the Packer so I wouldn't count)
    Rodgers (maybe if he plays at his current level for another 6-8 years)

    Honorable Mention:

    Sterling Sharpe (Only played 6 years, but was totally on a HOF track)
    Reggie White (I'd count him as an Eagle)

    There are about another 10-15 Packers HOFers that don't fit into the skill positions categories that the OP mentioned -- guys you probably never heard of like Forest Gregg, and Ray Nitschke.

    Just saying. I wouldn't say the Cowboys necessarily are the clear cut favorites for the best all time collection of best players ever.

    Not sure I have it in me to try to compare the nearly 50+ Packer and Cowboys in the hall of fame and/or going to be in the HOF in the near future. Especially hard to compare because of the different eras -- particularly the early Packers guys.
  14. muck4doo

    muck4doo Well-Known Member

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    How can you mention Detroit RB's, and forget Billy Sims?
  15. perrykemp

    perrykemp Well-Known Member

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    Or Charlie Sanders, their HoF tight end.
  16. Diogenes

    Diogenes Active Member

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    Oh, I had no doubt the Packers had it covered. The main reason I referenced the Colts was because all will have played in the SB era. Many recently with guys like Harrison, James and Wayne all with at least a chance at making the HOF. It's a good conversation.
  17. DMAC

    DMAC Member

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    Billy was one of my favorites, but the OP ask for two, and I couldn't put him ahead of Doak, and of course not ahead of Barry.
  18. Fastphilly

    Fastphilly Member

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    I'm a Niner fan, and the first game I ever seen was the 1981 NFC Championship with Joe Montana against Danny White. Danny White played a great game and hit a deep inside post to Pearson which would have sent you guys to the SB if not for a horsecollar tackle by Dwight Hicks. Didn't White take the Cowboys to three consecutive NFC championships? Not an easy feat. There are going to be quarterbacks that were very good in their era that never get the recognition they deserve in as history has shown. Danny White, Roman Gabriel, and Jim Kelly come to mind.
  19. Fastphilly

    Fastphilly Member

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    The 49ers come up short in running backs IMO. Roger Craig was as much a receiver than a runner if my childhood memory serves correct and I can't put Craig in the discussion of a traditional style running back. The Cowboys in my opinion have the clear cut win on RB over any team in the league. Dorsett and Smith were awesome. I know some will not like this, but even though Smith has the rushing record, I feel Dorsett was the better back. He was faster than Smith and IMO Smith benefitted from a better OL than Dorsett. Dorsett made cuts, took it to the outside (and could because of speed) and up the middle. Smith would pound up the middle most of the time due to the Grand Canyon sized running lanes by your top notch OL. Still amassing the rushing record is no easy task so kudos to both!!

    QB? It's a tough choice between the Colts (Unitas and Manning) and the 49ers (Montana and Young). I say the Niners since I'm bias:D .

    Wide receiver? There are many teams with great wideouts over the years but there is only one Jerry Rice! John Taylor was a great receiver as well, but doesn't get mentioned as much since he played opposite Jerry Rice.
  20. Fastphilly

    Fastphilly Member

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    I don't know about that. Even as a Niner fan, I have to say the 93 Cowboys were one of the best teams I have ever seen. No one could get though that OL. The running game was so good that you knew Aikmans play action pass was going to be deadly.

    I would have love to see the 1993 Dallas team play against the 1984 or 1989 49ers. Man that would be a game of the ages!!!

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