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Inside al Qaeda underground torture bunkers

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Doomsday101, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    WESTERN DESERT, Iraq (CNN) -- The hot wind swirls around the human bones and cracked skulls that litter the forsaken desert lands in Western Iraq.

    We are standing in the middle of what was an al Qaeda execution site, just outside an intricate bunker complex that the organization used to torture and murder its victims, the bodies left to rot or be eaten by animals.

    From the back of the police truck the opening to the first bunker is barely discernible in the distance.

    "Al Qaeda came in as a massive force" one of the officers says as we bump along the harsh terrain. "They stole our cars, our personal cars. They kidnapped two of my brothers. They blew up the house over there."

    In the distance we can see his village -- a set of sand colored homes surrounded by parched farmlands.

    As we approach grubby children chase the truck and then stand to the side, despondent, as the officer points to their home. "Their father was killed by al Qaeda," he says.

    In 2007 the U.S. military launched a series of airstrikes that drove out al Qaeda.

    As we enter the first bunker Captain Khaled Bandar tells us they found the floor littered with bodies.

    A gaping hole is evidence of the U.S. firepower. Insurgents used the layered and intricate labyrinth of passageways and hatches to carry out summary trials and executions.

    The police show us clothing and shoes, saying they are leaving them in place in case the families of the victims decide to come back. The stench of decay still lingers.

    Al Qaeda has been on the defensive in recent years, notwithstanding spectacular attacks attributed to the group like last week's blasts in the capital, including suicide truck bomb attacks on the ministries of foreign affairs and finance. At least 100 people were killed and more than 500 wounded.

    But the concerted security campaign against the group has forced it to change its structure and strategy.

    According to one man who has close connections to al Qaeda in Iraq and asked not to be identified, the group lost support because it lost the protection of the people.

    "There is an old saying about the basics of war. Whoever wins the people wins the war. So when al Qaeda didn't win the people over, it lost its battles," he explains.

    "Al Qaeda's strategy of taking control of areas has been abandoned for now. Their method is propaganda, instilling fear, terrorizing."

    He adds that the group stopped recruiting over the last six months because of a shortage in funding and increased infiltration.

    "Al Qaeda is moving towards selecting the elite and condensing its forces rather than expanding. The Americans nearly defeated al Qaeda by cornering it and reducing its operations," he says.

    But those operations are still deadly, and the war is by no means over. "No, the war is not over in Iraq, a type of battle is over, but there are new battles cloaked in politics.

    Now politicians try to pay militias, al Qaeda, or armed factions ...in order to eliminate political foes," the man with knowledge of al Qaeda says.

    And al Qaeda is still able to send a message to those who dare oppose them.

    The police officers show us blood stains in the desert near the bunkers and tell us how they found two beheaded bodies just a month ago. They were identified as being the brothers of two police officers from another city, Ramadi.

    Meanwhile, al Qaeda's global war has sifted to a place it believes it can still win -- Afghanistan.

    "Al Qaeda in Afghanistan is made up of true believers, those who believe in jihad and fighting, and that's why they joined," the man with connections says. "As for most of al Qaeda in Iraq's members, they are just looking to benefit themselves, or they join out of resentment for a certain sect or to avenge their families."

    As for Iraq's longterm stability, that very much still hangs in the balance. He says: "Peace will not be achieved by a magic wand or the rhetoric of a politician. Peace will be accomplished through the will of the Iraqi youth. We have to wait for this generation to change ... so that a generation that hates (the violence) will emerge."
  2. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    And you will find very little about this in places like the NY Times - they would rather whine about a few terrorists who were not treated politley then the THOUSANDS tortured and killed by Al Queeda and the like.
  3. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Come on you know they would not use Waterboarding they beat you then kill you but never ever use waterboarding that is something the evil USA would do.
  4. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    You mean the Al Qaeda that didn't exist in Iraq until after our half baked, ivory tower, fairy tale invasion plan opened the door for them? Remember Rumsfeld wanted to go in with half the troops we sent in, when we actually needed two to three times what we actually sent to do the job right.

    Unintended consequences are a *****....

    My government does things in my name, so I sometimes feel the need to complain when they do things I feel are wrong. I notice you guys seem to do the same dang thing. Right?

    Al Qaeda's made up of a bunch of ruthless, power hungry religious fanatics who will do most anything to advance their cause. But last time I checked, I had never voted for them...
  5. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    and deer ol argle gives once again evidence of why liberals are unfit for national security concerns.

    To take the country we did need less troops and Rummy was right about that. It was the decision to disband the Iraqi army that really caused the problem since that had NOT been factored into the operation. THAT was the critical mistake- not being told that was what was going to be done before the planning began.
  6. jimmy40

    jimmy40 Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE (CNN)

    Al Qaeda has been on the defensive in recent years, notwithstanding spectacular attacks attributed to the group like last week's blasts in the capital, including suicide truck bomb attacks on the ministries of foreign affairs and finance. At least 100 people were killed and more than 500 wounded.

    [/QUOTE]


    I would think horrific would have been a better word to use.
  7. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Saddam was a terrorist. He funded it. He supported it in every sense. We did the right thing, whether you people on the left want to acknowledge it or not. We have not been attacked since 9/11 because of the offensive tact we have taken.

    And yet you people continue to whine about Iraq. The ignorance that is on parade is simply stunning to watch.
  8. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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  9. Wheat

    Wheat Philosopher

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    Excellent examples of why were are better than these people, and shouldn't be doing anything remotely "like" this awful stuff.

    Don't lower yourself to this level by defending torture.

    It mostly doesn't work anyways. Just gets them to say what they thing you want to hear.
  10. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    The idea that our level of brutality should scale based on the brutality of our enemies is pretty ridiculous.
  11. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    No you do what you need to do to get the job done. I know that is a strange concept to some here but that is why its called the REAL WORLD.
  12. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    What a ridiculous argument. Doing what you need to do does not necessarily mean abandoning your principals as a human and a citizen of America.

    Maybe they can drop you off in Iraq and you can go slaughter all the women and children you can find till all the terrorists turn themselves in, seems you have no problem with detaching yourself from virtue and morality.
  13. Wheat

    Wheat Philosopher

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    If you're not able to observe your own morals and ethics during a time of war. Then they really aren't something you believe in.

    This country isn't built on beliefs for only when they are convenient. Its built on the idea that we follow them even when they are the hardest to observe.
  14. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I love how the left here has turned a thread about the evil nature of Al Queda into how evil we are.

    Priceless.
  15. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    and completely expected. Blame America first is the motto they live by.
  16. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    :laugh2:
  17. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Oh stop crying, not everyone is out to get you. You may want to actually try paying attention to who turned this into a left/right issue from the onset. Hint, it was burm, as usual.
  18. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    This is the wrong approach to War. I thought about adding "IMO" to this last statement but decided against it because it is not just my opinion but the opinion of all I know who have been involved in the business of War.

    War is a dirty business. Their are none worse. It is why you try to avoid it. Having said this, you fight to win. You do whatever it takes to win because the alternative is unthinkable. I get the feeling that most people do not believe that their are real consequences to losing this War. This is odd to me because we have been told over and over that their are consequences to losing an election. Why wouldn't their be consequences to losing a War? Perhaps the better term is, "I don't get the feeling that most Americans believe that the consequences of losing this War are very serious." I don't care what it is. If we are going to fight, fight to win. Fight to kill all of the enemy, with whatever means necessary. Fight to kill all of them, where ever they are with all measures at our disposal. If you do not have this mind set ingrained, then do not engage in War.

    We are not better then them because we do or do not use the methods they use. We are only better then them if we win. If we lose, we are worse because that means that we are subject to their intents and what does that mean when you look at the measures they are willing to go to in rooms just like this? Losing is not an option. We believe that because we, as a Nation, are very forgiving victors, other countries will act in kind. We are a rearity in this regard. The truth is that when countries lose Wars, they are often subjugated. The results of this are brutal, inhuman, horrible. I am not in this to lose. America, needs to understand this.

    I don't expect most to agree with me on this. I know the left will not. It is what it is.
  19. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    It's not an issue of being left or right. You fight a war to win, obviously. That doesn't not mean you abandon who you are. Where will you draw the line? Is there one?

    "Any means necessary", is as fine a war motto as any other but if you win and lose yourself in the process, the fallout of that victory may prove almost as damaging as a loss.
  20. CowboyWay

    CowboyWay If Coach would have put me in, we'd a won State

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    double post.

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