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Is this a rebuilding year?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by jday, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. Jstopper

    Jstopper Active Member

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    I get where you're coming from but I have a few issues with some of your points. This is the same Rob Ryan we fired that same offseason if he was able to breathe air into that saints team why the hell couldn't he do it with us for 2 years when we never were coming off of being the worst defense in the nfl?
    Secondly they had drew brees the year they had the worst defense in history and he wasn't able to keep that defense off the field then, so why was he able to do it this year?
    And thirdly if a dominant offense is able to build up a lead and make the opposing offense become one dimensional then that leans hope towards us this season since on paper we definitely look to have a top 4 offense.
    But alas this is all speculation that will only be resolved once the season comes. And I for one can't wait, I may be in the minority but I have higher expectations for this season than any in the last few years
  2. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    That's what makes it difficult to say rebuild. The offense didn't need much retooling for the exception of the Guard position. The defense, on the other hand, was full of holes and, in my opinion, still has holes. Honestly, I believe this team could use another key contributor at each level of the defense - dline, linebacker, corner, and safety. I say this understanding that that contributor may already be on the roster; Lawrence or other could be a decent pass rusher, Melton could return to form, we may actually have 1-tech who can hold his ground when doubled by the guard and center, the lights may come on for Bruce Carter, Claiborne and/or Wilcox might be a ball hawk, and any number of the other no-names on this team might turn out to be starter material. We simply have no way of knowing at this point. Which is why I absolutely cannot wait for preseason. Granted, we still won't truly know until the regular season, but at least will have a better idea than what we do now.
  3. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to say. One, I would point to change for change sake. Sometimes a simple change with a guy with his type of attitude can be just the change a defense needs. Two, Rob Ryan also had to use ducktape on this defense when he was here. Remember Carr at Safety? Three, that offense, as I said before, helped his defense alot. Again, when an opposing team is playing from behind, that makes playing defense alot easier.

    That was the year they were also missing Sean Payton due to bounty-gate suspension. No one on that team was the same that year.
    On this point, I agree. It all comes down to how LinehanRomo utilizes the talent he has at his disposal and, of course, they can stay healthy overall.

    I'm with you on not being able to wait for the season, but, at the end of the day, it's defense that wins championships, and the Cowboys defense is, as I have said before, one big question mark at this point.
  4. Jstopper

    Jstopper Active Member

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    I agree Rob Ryan did have some bad luck on the injury front but I'm sorry nobody had it worse than Monte last year. 20 different DL had to play for us. That's disgusting, so simply from a health standpoint we should get a humongous boost. Guys were getting signed on Tuesday and being asked to defend Peyton Manning on Sunday. Also the same way Rob gave them a boost just by switching coordinators I would say Marinelli gives us a double boost, not just in play calling but also in change for change sake. Also linehan is gonna affect both offense and defense by helping us build up leads then pounding them into submission. Maybe I have rose colored glasses syndrome but I just see this team as being better than last year in every level.
  5. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    I really want to hop on the train with you, but I can't. I'm going to need to see it first. But your right, the same thing that happened to the Saints realistically could very well happen to the Cowboys this year. There are absolutely no laurels for anyone on this defense to rest on. They are probably the most disrespected unit in the league right now, in terms of expectations, which I couldn't be happier about. This means that every single player on that team has something to prove and should have a massive chip on their shoulder as individuals and as a unit. It is a recipe for success. But, like I said, I'm not buying it until I see it.
    BoysFan4ever likes this.
  6. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Yeah, Manning will always make a difference.

    However...Denver's WRs are:
    D Thomas (many rate him the same as Dez...either way, he's good)
    Wes Welker
    Emmanuel Sanders (really good addition and Pitt's #2 last year)
    Andre Caldwell
    Cody Latimer

    That's pretty outstanding.

    Their TE , Julius Thomas, is considered my many to be a top 2-3 TE.
    At this stage in his career, outside of Dallas, he is now rated ahead of Witten. Either way, they are comparable.
  7. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    A few things.
    The Saints had better personnel
    At Dallas, Ryan lost most of his players to injury
    The Saint faced a pretty easy schedule
    Also, the Saints got their head coach...helping the overall team
  8. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    First, I was talking about what the Broncos had to work with last year that got them into the Super Bowl, so remove Emmanual from the equation. Second, the Cowboys WR group does have some great potential. In fact, at this point in their perspective career, I prefer Beasley over Welker, for the simple fact that Beasley has a whole lot more tread on his tire. Thrid, Julius Thomas, prior to Manning being his QB, had done absolutely nothing. In the two years prior to Manning he had 1 reception, out of 9 games started. Last year, he had 65 in 14. Witten has stacked good year after good year for several years. So while, for youth sake, most people would take Julius Thomas, he is not exactly a proven better player than Witten.

    But, in the end, like you said, the offensive weapons each team has to work with are at least comparable, which was my overall point - the Cowboys offense has no excuse for not being at least a top 10 offense the year. They have the weapons, they have the offensive line, and they should have the QB. It's the defense we have to worry about.
  9. Nation

    Nation Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Here are each of the Cowboys opponents 2014 Win over/unders according to Bovada. Feels mostly like a pile of parity to me.
    49ers 10.5
    @Titans 7
    @Rams 7.5
    Saints 9.5
    Texans 7.5
    @Seahawks 11
    Giants 8
    Redskins 7.5
    Cardinals 7.5
    @Jaguars (London) 5
    @Giants 8
    Eagles 9
    @Bears 8.5
    @Eagles 9
    Colts 9.5
    @redskins 7.5
  10. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Exactly the rebuilding started after Garrett took over there's only a few players left from the 2010 team. Offensively all we have left is Romo, Witten, Dez and Doug Free. The OL has clearly improved since 2010 and the Cowboys have some promising young talent at WR to go along with Dez but with Romo at 34 coming off back surgery and the defense needing a complete overhaul it doesn't appear the team is working towards anything real good in my opinion. Garrett has been a mistake at HC and the Cowboys front 7 needs to be completely rebuilt. The Cowboys are likely to need 2 new corners in the next couple of years with Carr due a lot of money after the 2014 season and Claiborne unlikely to see a second contract unless he can avoid the injury bug and start looking like the player the Cowboys thought they were getting with the 6th overall pick 3 years ago.

    The Cowboys have used four #1's on defense since 06 and 2 of those players Carpenter and Jenkins went bust and Claiborne is one more injury plagued season away from being a bust. Spencer is the only #1 defensive pick in the past 8 years that stuck. Lee who's been by far the best defensive player drafted since 06 has been a disappointment due to injuries. He's going to have to be replaced because he can't be counted on. The Cowboys have to hope that the 2014 draft class produces a few solid defensive building blocks for the future or the next few years won't be any better than the previous 4 years.
  11. dogunwo

    dogunwo Waves that make you sea-sick

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    What I do like is that they appear to be insulating the roster with better depth, a solid offensive line, and removing bad contracts, so the difficulty for the next QB to step in isn't as tough. I mean, it will still be tough for any rookie, but maybe we can go about it the same way the Steelers did with Big Ben, or how Seattle did with Russel Wilson.
  12. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Eric Decker was on the team last year and his numbers were almost as good as Dez'.
    But, both teams have plenty.
    But anyway, I diverted your thread...so I'll quit talking about Denver.
  13. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure that Garrett was a complete mistake, though, I agree, mistakes have clearly been made. But what separates Garrett from most HC's is prior to being the Head Coach for the Cowboys, he was never Head Coach anywhere. Most Head Coaches at least were a Head Coach of a college program before they were offered a job. So Garrett's case is slightly different than most. Not to say he is more deserving of patience than others, but I can at least understand some of the in-game management issues he has had - he is never been completely responsible for it before. But in terms of those head-scratching mistakes, I think this is his last year to show he can handle those types of issues.

    What I like is the guy's he has surrounded himself with. He has assembled a coaching staff that has exhibited the ability to adjust their scheme to play to the strengths of the players - an aspect of football Garrett clearly hasn't mastered yet. I also like the type of players he has brought in. The youth movement has been nice to see, as well, which further indicates that he has Jerry's attention and Jerry is acting accordingly - something we didn't see with the "Yes Man" Wade. So while I agree we should keep our expectations tempered for this next year, years to come might be better than what you expect, if Jerry is patient enough to stay the course.
  14. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    No worries. All I care about when submitting a thread is sparking conversation; I could care less about the direction it takes, so long as it helps kill time between now and kick off.
    DFWJC likes this.
  15. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    To your point about Decker, though, every player on that offense benefitted from the Manning-effect. Manning knew who he was throwing to before he took the ball from the center because by looking at the defense he knew who was going to be open. The only qualification to succeed under Manning is to be were he expects you to be within 2 seconds of the ball being hiked and being able to catch - if you can do those two those things, he'll make you look like a Pro Bowler.
  16. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I call it a building year, but it can be call rebuilding or retooling because everybody have different opinions of what those terms mean.

    At the point that Jerry agreed to cut Ware, they were acknowledging that they were not going all-in on 2014.

    Being in a building year does not mean that they can't win. The offense is loaded and the defense has multiple reasons that it could be much better.

    Reasons for defensive improvement:
    1. 2nd year in scheme.
    2. Hopefully, less injuries. (the probabilities favor less injuries due to removing all of the older players)
    3. Many young players got experience in 2013. Wilcox, Holloman, Wilber at LB... (in the past the Cowboys tended to stay with stopgap veterans like Will Allen, but in 2013 they committed to young players).
    4. Free agents: Melton + McClain could be better than Hatcher + Hayden as the starting DTs. Melton might not match up to Hatchers career year, but McClain projects to be a big upgrade from Hayden.
    5. The RDE position. Ware was not very effective in the 2nd half of the season and his backups received a lot of snaps. His primary backups were Brown, Wynn and Wilber. The team didn't even like Brown or Wynn enough to retain them and Wilber is now a LB. Lawrence will need to be a consistent pass rushing threat. Mincey has been a better DE in the past than Brown, Wynn and Wilber have ever shown. With Crawford and some other as possibilities at LDE, Selvie might also play some RDE this season.
    jday likes this.
  17. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Garrett has been a complete mistake in my opinion because the Cowboys had much better teams under their previous HC. The Cowboys haven't made any progress in 3 full seasons under Garrett and appear to be a declining team. In Wades first 3 seasons in Dallas the Cowboys never finished worse than 9-7 and they made the playoffs twice with one playoff win. The talent has gotten worse under Garrett and the expectations for the 2014 team are the lowest they've been during his tenure at HC. What separates Garrett from most head coaches is he had less than 6 years of coaching experience before becoming a HC. Most NFL head coaches worked their way up the coaching ranks for years becoming successful coordinators before getting an NFL head coaching opportunity.

    Jim Harbaugh spent 17 years working his way up the ranks and was a very successful college HC at Stanford before being handed the SF job. The least experienced HC in the league at the time Garrett took over the Cowboys in 2011 was Ron Rivera who had 15 years of coaching experience. Garrett was under fire as the OC with the Cowboys for his play calling and ended up being stripped of that job as the HC. Garrett was never qualified or ready to be a NFL HC and has been having to learn on the job. Teams are suppose to be developing players not their HC. It sends a bad message to your team when your HC is having to be coached. By Jerry continuing to be patient and stay the course with Garrett he's running the risk of ending up with another 6-10 team.
    Aurican and daveferr33 like this.
  18. PA Cowboy Fan

    PA Cowboy Fan Well-Known Member

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    I know one thing. He's wasted the careers of our best players while Garrett learns on the job.
  19. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Dez is entering his 5th season and hasn't even been part of a winning team yet.
  20. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    No progress? I don't get that at all. The change is the way we do business, bringing the salary cap situation under control and the almost complete rebuild to a much much younger roster alone is progress. The shame of it is our injury struggles have greatly prevented the W-L record to improve. To the Cowboys credit we haven't had a losing season during the changes and injuries.

    A declining team? I don't get that even more. If anything we an improving team and are in a much better position for future years than before.
    Bullflop likes this.

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