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Is this a rebuilding year?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by jday, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Look at the Cowboys record the last 3 seasons you call that progress? You call losing 3 straight season finale elimination games including one at home progress? Jerry does business the same way he's been doing it which is why his team remains stuck in the mud. The Cowboys have to sign mid/low tier free agents every year due to the Cowboys cap situation. Jerry continues to over pay players like Brandon Carr who was considered a mid tier FA. Jerry continues to resign players to big extensions who have yet to prove themselves.

    Sean Lee had yet to prove he could play a season without missing multiple games due to injuries and his contract just blew up in Jerry's face help costing him Demarcus Ware. Rebuilding with younger players doesn't mean progress. Just look at the defense now compared to 2010. The Cowboys have young new starters at every position and the defense is now the worst in franchise history. Yes this is a declining team hardly anyone other than Cowboy FANS think the Cowboys will make the playoffs in 2014. Some even have them finishing last in the NFC East. That wasn't the case the past couple of years but the defense has gotten worse every year and has become a huge liability.

    The only improvements the Cowboys have made under Garrett is on the OL and at the WR position. With Romo being 34 and coming off back surgery his best days have come and gone and so have Witten's who's starting to slow up. The only thing that can get the Cowboys headed in a positive direction is coming up with several solid building blocks from the 2014 draft and improved coaching.
    Aurican and daveferr33 like this.
  2. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    So, your thinking that had Jerry stayed the course with Wade in 2010, he would have gone undefeated, after going 1 and 7 through the first half of the season? The decline started under Wade; Wade inherited a great team from Parcells and ran it into the ground and Jason Garrett has been struggling to fix this team ever since. Add to that the rash of injuries the Cowboys have had and the cap situation that was mess a before Garrett took over the reigns, and you should be able to understand why he has been forced to take chances on guys with injury histories. The alternative would have been to get guys that either didn't fit the system or simply couldn't play.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying it's all been great. I have my own set of issues with the guy; but this team's inability to crack into the playoffs since he has been here is not completely his fault. Jerry could take some blame. The players should get a piece of the pie, as well. And finally the injuries this team has had to battle through shouldn't be overlooked either.
    AsthmaField likes this.
  3. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Nice post.

    Wade inherited a nice core from Parcells and then Jerry spent ridiculous amounts of money on top of that and Wade just created a big mess with a roster full of players with a overwhelming sense of entitlement.

    Garrett on the other hand, inherited Wade's mess and has now replaced everybody except Romo, Witten, Free, Scandrick and Dez.

    Garrett has had to over-focus on RKG type players just to offset the horrible locker-room mentality that occurred under Wade.
    jday likes this.
  4. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Clearly you didn't read my entire post.
  5. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    And paying aging veterans for what they had done as opposed to what they were going to do, all falls at the feet of GM Jerry
  6. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    That's not even close to my thinking. Wade inherited some very good players from Parcells but the Cowboys were far from a great team under him when he left. Parcells wouldn't have left if he thought he had a great team that was SB ready. He was discouraged with the defense and wasn't looking forward to putting in the time to developing a young QB who was talented but mistake prone. The Cowboys took a big step towards becoming a great team in 07 under Wade. The Cowboys were the most dominant team in the NFC that season tying a franchise record with 13 wins and had 13 pro bowlers. Wade had a history of not being able to prepare teams for the playoffs and once again it reared it's ugly head at the end of that season.

    He allowed several players including Romo to go to Cabo a week before the playoff game with the Giants when his team and QB were slumping. That season became one of the most disappointing in franchise history. The disappointment of the 07 season carried over to the following year resulting in the Cowboys missing the playoffs when everyone thought the 08 season would be their year. The players bought into the SB hype and the team suffered a letdown. The disappointment of the 08 season and the low expectations by everyone entering the 09 season got the Cowboys to focus and it led to the teams first playoff win in 13 years.

    The team got so caught up with the playoff win over Philly they showed up flat in Minn the following week and got steamrolled. The Cowboys were never the same after that. The following season the high expectations with most picking the Cowboys to reach the SB in their own stadium caused the team to become complacent and it resulted in a terrible first half of the season that saw Romo go down and it ended with the players quitting on Wade. Wade had already proven with 2 other organizations that he couldn't lead a team.

    The guy couldn't win crap with John Elway as his QB. Had Jerry fired him after the debacle in Philly at the end of the 08 season and hired a solid HC the Cowboys may have gone further in 2009 and chances are they would be a much better team today. Jerry stays the course with weak yes men until the bottom falls out. I didn't need to see 3 straight 5-11 seasons under Campo to know he couldn't lead a team. I've seen enough of Garrett the past 3 seasons to know his tenure isn't going to end well. I'm certainly not putting most of the blame on him it's all on Jerry for making the hire. Garrett's been in over his head ever since he took over the team and he's working for an owner who has a history of undermining his head coaches.
    Aurican, PA Cowboy Fan and Tawney88 like this.
  7. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    I read your post and addressed most of it but you chose to quote only one of my comments. I explained Jerry doesn't do business any differently now than he has been. He's a creature of habit which is why the team remains 500 every year. Rebuilding to a much younger roster doesn't mean you're making progress and getting better. Like I said look at the defense now compared to when Garrett took over. As for the injury struggles preventing our W/L record from improving that's just an excuse. Every team has to deal with injuries and players have to step up. The Cowboys have lost a number of winnable games that had nothing to do with injuries.They lost 4 very winnable games in 2011 to the Jets, Detroit, NE and AZ and it wasn't because of injuries.

    I can point to a number of blown 4th quarter leads over the past 3 seasons that had nothing to do with injuries. I saw a Packers team go 15-1 in 2011 with 15 players on IR. They won several games without Rodgers last season. The Ravens won a SB in 2012 losing Ray Lewis for part of the season and their starting corner for the rest of the season against then Cowboys. Speaking of that game it wasn't injuries that caused the Cowboys to blow that game. It's been defensive lapses, ill-timed turnovers by Romo and coaching mistakes that have caused the teams W/L record not to improve.
    Aurican and daveferr33 like this.
  8. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    We really are lucky that we are in the East. With an 8-8 record, we have had a chance to win the division title in week 17 the last 3 seasons.

    If we were in the AFC West with Denver and KC, we probably win 5 games at most.

    With that being said, I don't see where Washington, Philly, and New York have upgraded significantly either this offseason, so there is no reason to think we will not be competing for the division again in week 17. Now if we lose a 4th consecutive "win and in" game, that might be an NFL record...............LOL
  9. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    You kind of contradicted yourself here. That 13 and 3 07 season was the season following Parcells departure, so, no, he didn't leave due to a lack of faith in the team he had built. Parcells left because Jerry pushed him out. Jerry had built his stadium and was tired of putting up with Parcells. Parcells built a great team, but in terms of calling a good game, he was sadly behind the times. He tried to play Marty-ball (e.g. run the ball ad nauseum) with a 3 point lead. In today's NFL, 3 points is nothing to hang your hat on in the 3rd quarter. So while I wasn't crazy about his replacement Wade Phillips, I, too ,was ready to move on from Parcells.

    Agreed. Wade was a players coach to a fault. He was too soft and ultimately let the team walk all over him. I honestly think the players tried to get him fired with their play.

    About Wade, I agree. But Minnesota was a clear favorite in the playoffs. I'm not sure the Cowboys mindset had that much to do with it.

    So we are on the same page as far as Jerry is concerned. But I'm not so sure Jason is a lost cause. I'm giving him this year to prove that 1. he can effectively manage a game - and now with Marinelli/Linehan handling the reigns of offense and defense there is absolutely no excuse, 2. his players display a never quit attitude, at the very least, and stay focused throughout every game 3. he let's his coordinators run their perspective schemes without interference. If he just simply focuses on the big picture and lets the minds he has surrounded himself with do the rest, he should be just fine. But given his OC background, he may have a big problem with letting Linehan do his job. But if he can't refrain, he may be the only coach that is fired at the end of this year.

    Understand, I don't think we have a playoff team this year, either. And I don't think Jason should be graded based on making the playoffs this season; nor do I think Jerry is grading him by that. Jerry, in my opinion, is looking at what I'm looking at. But looking at the offseason moves, I like the direction this team is taking. A good round of Free Agency and Draft following this season very well could put this team where it needs to be to be a serious contender.
    Bullflop likes this.
  10. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    No, it would have been better to be 2-14 than 8-8. An 8-8 record keeps you out of the top 10 in the draft.

    Team that have a few years with top 10 picks are likely to surpass 8-8 teams at some point.
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  11. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    Good points, but at some point you have to have success on the field and that is why this is the pivotal season in my opinion. With all the changes that have been made and with pretty much a healthy roster, if we cannot improve beyond 8-8 than Jerry really is going to have to look at this team and rethink the path we are on.

    Not saying Jerry will not do it, but I think even Jerry knows that it will be very hard to justify bringing Garrett back after 4 consecutive non-winning seasons without the fan base rioting. That is why I say this season is the most pivotal of Garrett's tenure. If we make the playoffs, I fully expect Garrett to get an extension. If we don't make the playoffs, I say it is probably 50/50 if Garrett returns depending on how many games we missed the playoffs by.

    Stay tuned, will be interesting to see how this all works out.
  12. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if that is true, it seems like teams like Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, and Buffalo pick in the top 10 almost every year and never seem to get better.

    Have the Bills even made the playoffs since Jim Kelly retired, even though they have top 10 picks every year?
  13. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Listening to Parcells he had his fill of coaching and wanted to leave which is why he never took another head coaching job. If it had to do with Jerry pushing him out he would have gone on to coach another team. He saw the game was changing to a passing league and that's not his style. At his age he wanted no part of having to develop a young QB who in his words had warts. Romo was a project and Parcells was too old for that which is why he brought in experienced QB's like Vinny and Bledsoe after his first season in Dallas. Jerry claimed in an interview that he wanted Parcells to return. Parcells was a 4 yards and a cloud of dust HC who was still stuck in the 1980's trying to win games with his running game and defense.
  14. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Those teams have other issues. The Jags never spend money, etc..

    If the same Cowboys teams had gone 2-14 vs 8-8 they would have been better in the long run.
  15. Lonestar94

    Lonestar94 Well-Known Member

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    For the defense.
  16. Coy

    Coy Well-Known Member

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    Sean Payton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason Garrett

    Saying that, I'm with you, I have hope, I always have hope.
  17. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Edit: It was the 2010 Packers that went on to win the SB who had 15 players on IR.
  18. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    Okay, will agree to disagree on why Parcells left. Frankly, I don't care why, for the aforementioned reasons, I'm just glad he did leave...same with Wade. Garrett on the other hand, hasn't completely lost my faith. With him, I have reasons to think he could be a great Head Coach. He has, in my opinion, surrounded himself with a great coaching staff and, barring another bust draft, he looks to have surrounded himself with players with great potential to develop. On that last point you might blame Garrett as missing on Claiborne but that was Rob Ryan's choice in my opinion, and Rob Ryan is not the only talent evaluator who thought Claiborne was the best corner in years to be available that year - furthermore, Claiborne has one more year to prove the detractors wrong. Anyway, my overall point is, Garrett has one more year to prove his worth and I still disagree, he has not been complete mistake. It just may take another season to start seeing his impact take effect, because they have had to completely start over on building a defense.
  19. jday

    jday Well-Known Member

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    My problem with the playoff measuring stick, if that's truly what Jerry is looking for, is not too many people actually believe this is a playoff caliber team. I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but alot of things can happen to prevent that appearance that will have nothing to do with Garrett's ability as a Head Coach. What if Romo is injured? Do you honestly expect Garrett to get this team there with Weeden? What if the injury bug hits everywhere, like it has done over the past two seasons? Granted, the Packers figured out a way but that is an isolated instance that doesn't hold too much water when you look at the NFL over the past several years. The defense was the worse defense in the NFL last year and they just lost two of their best defensive players - Ware and Hatcher. Don't get me wrong, I believe they were right to let them walk. In fact, I took that as proof that Jerry is finally listening and letting the aging veterans walk so they can begin again developing youth. But developing youth is not without it's drawbacks - the Cowboys will experience growing pains as a result. But ultimately, if these Cowboys stay this course for the next few seasons, the end will justify the means.
  20. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Of course I agree but that is why I said it's a shame the last 2 seasons have been derailed by injuries. But if you look at where we were 3 years ago compared to today in terms of running the biz and the roster in general it's clear we have improved. If we continue the w's will come. Sometimes that just doesn't happen as quickly as most of us want it too. I know we all hope that is this year.

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