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Is this separation of church and state?

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by VietCowboy, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    Just asking before I comment on it. Thank you.
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Palins_Christian_Heritage_Week.html?showall

    September 04, 2008
    Categories: Sarah Palin
    Palin's Christian Heritage Week

    As I wrote earlier this week in a story about worries in the Jewish community about Palin, her roots in explicitly Christian Republican politics may undo some of McCain's progress with Jewish voters.
    Today my colleague Lisa Lerer passes on American Center for Law & Justice Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow's report that Sarah Palin signed a proclamation declaring an Alaskan "Christian Heritage Week" during her tenure as governor.
    The week "reminds Alaskans of the role Christianity has played in our rich heritage. Many truly great men and women of America, giants in the structuring of American history, were Christians of caliber and integrity who did not hesitate to express their faith."
    It goes on to quote several of the founding fathers praising God.
    Measures like that one are a goal of the Evangelical wing of the Republican party, and Palin's signature on it is another mark of her difference from McCain, her strength with the base, and the question mark of whether she can reach to the middle.
    In any case, the chief of the militantly secularist Americans United for the Separation of Church and State is the first to voice a complaint.
    Full resolution after the jump.
    » Continue reading Palin's Christian Heritage Week
    div#summary{display: none;} The full transcript of the proclamation:

    WHEREAS, the celebration of Christian Heritage Week, October 21-27, 2007, reminds Alaskans of the role Christianity has played in our rich heritage. Many truly great men and women of America, giants in the structuring of American history, were Christians of caliber and integrity who did not hesitate to express their faith. Some of their legacies are evidenced as follows:

    WHEREAS, the Preamble to the Constitution of the State of Alaska begins with, "We the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land"

    WHEREAS, Benjamin Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention stated, "It is impossible to build an empire without our Father's aid. I believe the sacred writings which say that, Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it (Psalm 127:1)."

    WHEREAS, George Washington enunciated, "animated alone by the pure spirit of Christianity, and conducting ourselves as the faithful subjects of our free government, we may enjoy every temporal and spiritual felicity."

    WHEREAS, Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, wrote, "Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?"

    WHEREAS, James Madison, father of the United States Constitution advocated "the diffusion of the light of Christianity in our nation" in his Memorial and Remonstrance.

    WHEREAS, Patrick Henry quoted Proverbs 14:34 for our nation, "Righteousness alone can exalt a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people."

    WHEREAS, George Mason, in his Virginia Declaration of Rights, forerunner to our United States Bill of Rights, affirmed, "That it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forebearance, love and charity towards each other."

    NOW, THEREFORE, I, Sarah Palin, Governor of the State of Alaska, do hereby proclaim October 21-27, 2007, as Alaska's 9th Annual Christian Heritage Week in Alaska, and encourage all citizens to celebrate this week.


    --
    then I read this:
    http://blog.beliefnet.com/lynnvsekulow/2008/08/no-nonchristian-heritage-week.html


    "NO NON-CHRISTIAN HERITAGE WEEK"

    By: Rev. Barry W. Lynn
    Friday August 29, 2008

    posted @ 2:18pm Permalink [IMG] Email This [IMG] Add to »
    Categories: Religious Freedom, Separation of Church and State

    As some posters have already relayed to you, if this ticket doesn't deliver the conservative evangelical vote it is hard to imagine what would.

    You are certainly accurately describing her "Christian Heritage Week" resolution as a "real controversy". As you know, I don't believe it is up to the government at any level to tell people of any faith what week or day they should feel particularly religious. That's why we have religious leaders who will presumably tell believers to honor their heritage and worship every day of every week. There is absolutely no good (that is, non-pandering reason) to make these governmental salutes to religion.

    Alaska's "Christian Heritage Week" just happens to be a particularly offensive version of so-called "civil religion". Here are just a few of its problems:

    * Jefferson and Madison are quoted completely out of context here--both would be appalled at this idea and, in fact, Jefferson routinely refused to sign "day of prayer" proclamations sent to him by Congress;

    *Patrick Henry may have been happy to comment on "sin"; but luckily for America his view of the role of religion in the nation was not that held by the majority of the Framers. In this country the government tries to stop "crimes"; it leaves the correction of "sinning" to the conscience of the people;

    *Most significantly, this proclamation seeks "to encourage all citizens to celebrate this week". Alaska has a very diverse religious population, including many folks who adhere to traditional native religions. To suggest that even non-Christians celebrate this historically befuddled "Christian week" is hubris of the highest order. As the legendary Texas writer and musician Kinky Friedman observes: "Do you know how Native Americans pray on Thanksgiving? They say 'Thanks for nothing'." I know that is harsh, but I'm sure you get his drift.
  2. CanadianCowboysFan

    CanadianCowboysFan Lightning Rod

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    separation of church and state means no state religion like the Church of England or Church of Scotland etc

    It might be politically incorrect of her to have a Christian Heritage week but I don't think it violates any separation of church and state guarantee under the US Constitution
  3. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    okay thanks.
  4. Viper

    Viper Active Member

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    To me, seperation between church and state means A state/government run religion. I would object to the U.S. running Christianity, forcing everyone to become a Christian. Being a Christian, I don't want the government telling me how to believe. I would also want others coming to Christianity of thier own free will.

    I have no problem with the Government honoring people who happen to be Christian. People who have contributed to our country in positive ways.
  5. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Actually, yes it is. At least according to the Supreme Court.

    Another swing and a miss. How many are you up to today?
  6. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey Theo.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think it violates anything. There is no mandate that stipulates citizens of Alaska have to participate. It is there choice to do so. I see no real issue with it but I'm certain there will be issue, just the same.
  8. REDVOLUTION

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    Man.... I never knew that politics was so funny :lmao2:
  9. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

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    Today? Or this week?
  10. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Evening Pep.
  11. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

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    How goes it ABQ?
  12. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    Damn she's awesome!

    :bow:
  13. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    He's a she? I never knew.


    I thought it was a bit funny that she took the Canadians reply as gospel, as if he knew all about the US constitution.
  14. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm still at work. That should provide some idea of it all. :laugh2:
  15. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    I was talking about Palin being awesome.

    I like how she does things like this knowing it's going to peeve off the far-left but she just doesn't seem to care.
  16. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    Out of curiosity, what is the Supreme Court precedent in this situation?
  17. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the court at the time.

    Some courts would have ignored it. BUrgers court would have been all over it.

    The orignal INTENT of the amendment was to prevent a State Religion.

    Unfortunately activist judges have gone far beyond what was the original intent and have distorted it.
  18. sacase

    sacase Well-Known Member

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    Look at your money it says In God we trust. People really have no idea what seperation of church and state mean. So meany things these days that people think or say violate church and state are just plain wrong. Hell, look at the declaration of independence.
  19. vlad

    vlad Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I have zero problem with celebrating any religion, good for them. State sponsored...that's sketchy, but even then if people would celebrate all major religions they who cares anyway? Unfortunately it doesn't turn out that way.

    The funniest thing is that all those people she used as examples, Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, etc...were Enlightenment folks, and believed in religion as a tool to help social order, but were not actually "religious" themselves. I think John Adams was the one that was very pious and Jefferson was the one that fought him on putting any specific mention to one religions god into the Declaration/Constitution. Some history buffs in here can remind me...

    Just seems like we have more pertinent things to mess with, I forgot who it was on here, but they said they were very pious (Christian) and he wanted no part in anyone other than him and his church teaching his children and family about religion, because he didn't want them to get bad info. Interesting take on it...

    Far left are idiots, matched only but the idiots on the far right. Life happens across the spectrum, not in black and white...

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