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Kiper's all rookie team...

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by Risen Star, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Well-Known Member

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    No idea, it could very well go to Wilson. This year is definitely a closer race than previous years.
  2. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Winter is Here Staff Member

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    Opinions do not equal Facts.

    Wonder why you did not throw out the RBs to support your opinions. Why did you not mention that all of the RBs in a colts uniform combined did not put up the numbers of one Lynch or one Morris.

    Morris and Lynch were the number 2 and 3 rushing RBs in the nfl only below Adrian Peterson.

    Morris with 1600+
    Lynch with 1500+

    Now you add all of the RBs totals (that is 4 RBs and one FB) and you still are only at 1378 rushing yards.

    It is amazing what a young QB can do how and how much it helps the passing game when they have a reliable running back to hand the ball off to.

    One other thing...Morris made a name for himself at RB with a stellar showing. Lynch already had a name for himself due to his career.

    Unless someone watches the colts a great deal or goes and looks it up...most will not even know the name of the leading RB for the colts.

    So...opinions do not equal facts.
  3. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Well-Known Member

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    I did mention his team's lack of a running game, it doesn't explain away his inconsistent decision making from the pocket. The best you can say about that is he possibly may not had as a low a completion percentage and as many interceptions if he didn't have to throw as often. But we don't know that, because it didn't happen, and you can't base rookie of the year off a woulda, coulda, shoulda argument.

    I'm not saying Luck isn't a good quarterback. He is good, and IMO, he's going to be an all-pro one day. But I can't take my opinion of what he will be in the future and award him rookie of the year when two other players outperformed him.
  4. hra8700

    hra8700 Active Member

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    1. Why does anyone care what mel kiper says anyway?

    2. Luck had no running game. He was asked to throw the ball downfield without play action. He had to run a full blown nfl playbook. He had no defense so he had to pass the ball a lot. No competition for roty imo.

    3. I trust bill polian on claibornes performance more than mel kiper...
  5. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Nobody had the turnover of the Colts. At one point over 40 of the 60 or so players on their roster and PS weren't there a year ago.

    Luck was surrounded by rookies and ran a big boy offense. He got hit more than any QB in football. No rookie QB was asked to do more.

    They were 1-15 before him. 11-5 this year. Not with the 1st ranked rushing game in the league. The 22nd ranked. There just isn't a comparison of which QB has done more this year.

    The best part of this is the gap will only increase from here. He's head and shoulders better than that athlete in Washington. It's an absolute insult to compare him to Luck.
  6. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    how about we take into consideration

    1) passes attempted by each (in conjunction with interceptions)
    2) running game
  7. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Because he forgot more than you know.
  8. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    There are many people on this forum that were following ( and becoming fans of) RG3 long before most Redskin fans had ever even heard his name.
  9. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    And there were people on this forum who thought he was a vastly overrated pro prospect long before the Redskins made the trade up to get him.
  10. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    That's right.

    The point was that he was making it out to be a Cowboy vs Redskin agenda thing and, in this case, it is not.
  11. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Well-Known Member

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    I certainly believe that was so, especially since he's a Texas boy. I didn't hear about him until 2010, and wasn't impressed enough to want my team to draft him until late in 2011.

    I am not saying everyone here is biased against him, not at all. I've seen quite a few with an open opinion of his rookie year and have shouted down the know-nothings that don't even understand how his offense works. In fact, I've found more knowledgeable and honest members here than at the Giants and Eagles boards I frequent. Which is why I post here so often.
  12. Doomsday

    Doomsday Rising Star

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    This is the problem stats, they dont tell the whole story. I dont think he will win it, but Luck deserves to be the MVP. Take RBIII or Wilson off their teams and they could still win 8 games with those running games and defenses, the Colts would be lucky to win 4 games without Luck.
  13. RoyTheHammer

    RoyTheHammer Well-Known Member

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    Jenkins and Zietler.

  14. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    but this is all after the fact!!!
    no one could have predicted that!!!

    oh wait...

    many people did
  15. koolaid

    koolaid Drink Me

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    I think there are a number of reasons RW is more deserving than RG3 or Luck. I don't think anyone can dispute that if you include playoffs RW had the best season without much debate. People love to talk about how much help Russell had in Seattle, but IMO he had the least talented overall receiving core. Sidney Rice hasn't been impressive since moving to Seattle and Golden Tate doesn't scare anyone. The guy improved every single game and SHREDDED the niners at the end of the season, which was the most impressive win by a rookie IMO. In Atlanta he carried the team on his back to a near upset without much help at all from the running game.

    Luck won a lot of games, which is nice, but look at the teams he beat. Other than winning against GB and the Texans at home (and the texans were not playing good ball at that point) none of his victories are very impressive.
    He threw for a lot of yards but he also threw the ball 627 times yet threw fewer TDs and more Ints than Wilson. You are not going to convince me that Russell couldn't have put up similar numbers if he was allowed to chuck it around like that. (RW threw the ball 393 times). Like I said earlier Luck has the most potential of all these guys but you don't award people based off potential. Not to mention who really got pumped up to play the colts this season? They got to play the underdog role all year with low expectations for the team.

    Interestingly, RG3 and RW both threw the ball 393 times in the regular season. Both had running games with similar levels of success. RW had 6 more Tds and one more Int. RG3 threw for 200 more yards. Russell Wilson won 1 more game than RG3 in the regular season. In my opinion the redskins offense seemed less open than seattle's, especially as the season progressed and RW was let of his leash in Seattle. It seemed many of RG3's successful throws were quick passes with a lot of YAC. I think by the time the playoffs rolled around RW grew a lot more that RG3. Just watch the Seatle-Was playoff game, RG3 was staring down his primary target practically every time he threw.

    I suspect RG3 will win the award, but I think RW is most deserving.
  16. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Active Member

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    If you want to leave stats out of it, let's look at what RGIII did for the Redskins, and the whole DC area (minus the few Cowboys fans). I think everyone, Skins and Cowboys fans alike, will agree that the Skins had fallen to Cleveland like proportions of epic failure. The Skins haven't had a qb since, well, a long time. When was the last time the Colts franchise was in the playoffs? Seattle? How many times for each.

    I also wonder, don't know, who in the Colts played the bigger role in the team's inspiration for Pagano's health, I tend to give that credit to Arians, because Luck doesn't inspire me whenever I hear him, and my only in person experience with him was at Fedex in the preseason. Griffin sat and signed autographs for ever and a day, Luck when he went in before and after the game completely ignored the Colts fans that were cheering to him, even some other Colts stopped and signed autographs for their fans.

    I really would understand if RW wins it, I don't think he had the impact (non-stats) as RGIII, but he was a classy leader, who played the underdog role to perfection.
  17. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Active Member

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    I think that's a fair assessment. I don't know about RGIII in the playoff game, I would have to see it again, but clearly after he tweaked his knee, his performance went to 0.
  18. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    None of that means that Claiborne is a bad player or a bad pick.
  19. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem with you choosing Wilson. But in comparing Wilson to Griffin later in the season, you have to remember Griffin's injury hindered him in those last three games. Griffin did NOT stare at his target every time he threw, but he did do so much more in that game than I'd seen him do all season.
  20. KB1122

    KB1122 Well-Known Member

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    And there are still people on this forum that won't let results get in the way of their preconceptions.

    RGIII led the league in yards per pass attempt and yards per rush. He has the highest passer rating among rookies in ... ever? Wilson gave it a good run at the end, but ROTY is an easy choice.

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