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Laufenberg and Broaddus disagree on the best option at center

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by erod, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    Scouts judge ability and Ogletree has it. What they can't really do is judge how bad the player wants it.
  2. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    Harris has more ability in terms of what he'll be able to produce in the future. I don't think that is disputable at this point, but time could change things. I just don't see it happening.
  3. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

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    I've been on the other side of Couchscout a few times. I can't see how anyone could ever back Otree. Harris is certainly the better player. Otree had one great game all season and then he disappeared. I knew once he had that game he secured the #3 wr spot for the rest of the year. It is a shame too because Harris was a good bit better than him.
  4. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

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    You are right. He was a better blocker and was great at making defenders miss as well. I love his play making ability. He plays with a lot more heart as well.
  5. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    I would love to draft the next all pro center, but from what I am hearing there don't seem to be many ELITE center prospects in this draft. I think if we take a center it will be one of the top two or none at all. With that being said, I doubt we draft a center.

    I think we will take Killa, Berny and Costa into camp and the top two will probably be on the roster as top center and top backup.

    Neither make me feel all warm and fuzzy, but quite honestly they may be good enough IF we get one dominant guard in the draft or FA and get serviceable play out of our RT.
  6. brymatt94

    brymatt94 Active Member

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    Like Barrett Jones?
  7. ShiningStar

    ShiningStar Well-Known Member

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    Did we lose Cook? I thought he was okay with what he had to work with? Is there any way we can make him a better player? Maybe not starting material, but definitly sub in instead of just starter and back up player. Id like to see more rotation with our positions and getting more out of back up players.
  8. jobberone

    jobberone Orangutans make great guitarists Staff Member

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    I don't take sides on many players. I'm more the bring in the best you can and let them compete. Injuries, off field problems, poor scouting and fit and whatever waylay the best plans. Accumulate depth and talent and let the players sort it out.

    I do think they can compete with those two guys without making C a FA/draft priority. Of course ur always looking to upgrade if possible looking at the cost.
  9. bkight13

    bkight13 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I'm no expert, but it seems depth at C/RG is OK with Costa, Killa, Bern and Leary?. They almost have to cut Free, unless he agrees to $2M salary, so RT seems more of a need to compete with Parnell and provide depth.
  10. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    No but he is really limited in the run game. He just doesn't have the wheels to get out to the 2nd level and that was a big reason they couldn't run.
  11. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    We've got to have the bar set higher than Cook IMO.
  12. LatinMind

    LatinMind iPhotoshop

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    I agree with Babe on this one. Costa and Church just look like players who put in a tremendous amout of time to get better. Granted we only saw each for a short time in 2012, but you could tell immediately that both were alot better.

    Tyron | new guy | Costa | Bernadeau | Parnell or Rookie
  13. rocyaice

    rocyaice Well-Known Member

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    How is a guy undrafted a "failure? I know Romo was undrafted but did we really expect for Ogletree to be a Pro Bowler? He is what he is. A decent 3rd or 4th receiver. He was undrafted.
  14. Jersey

    Jersey Member

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    Cook played consistantly better than Costa EVER did for us. I'm not downing Costa, he's actually a local kid from here in NJ.
    He's just NOT a guy that will snap for a superbowl team.
    I don't want Rudy, I want talented players.
    Please everyone, let it go.
    Draft OL early and often, we need lots of help there.
  15. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    simple- I call anyone that cannot get it done a failure no matter whether he is a draft pick or not
  16. Iago33

    Iago33 Well-Known Member

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    I really don't know what you were watching.
  17. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    And I'm in the Kowlaski camp.
  18. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    Not the Cowboys.
  19. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I have been reviewing all the games using the All-22 from NFL.com which also has a view of just the lines.

    Cook may have appeared to play well while watching on TV in real-time because he didn't fail at the things that are the most obvious on TV.

    There are 3 basic things that a Center must do physically.

    1. Snap the Ball.
    2. Pass Block.
    3. Run Block.

    If a Center fails at #1, even just a few times, some very visible bad things such as turnovers occur. The fans/media are going to view the player as horrible.

    If a Center fails at #2, then the QB gets pressured and sacks or other bad things occur. The fans/media again view his play as horrible.

    If a Center fails at #3, the running back has less success than he should. He might lose a yard or only gain a yard or two on many plays. Fans/media don't love it, but since nothing terrible happens like a turnover, etc.., then it either does not get much attention or it gets blamed on the RB or the overall OLine. The individual OLineman (the Center in this example) rarely gets blamed for the failed running game.

    The issue with Kyle Cook is that he was really good at #1, fairly good at #2 and very very bad at #3. Maybe the worst in the league at #3.

    Phil Costa on the other hand, has had a number of failures at #1. These very obvious and sometimes resulted in turnovers or Romo chasing the ball around. Costa has had a few failures at #2 that were also very obvious to the fan watching on TV. However, the area were Costa excels (#3), is not always obvious to many fans; however, when watching game footage in detail, Costa is infinitely better than Cook at #3 (run blocking). The difference between Costa and Cook at run blocking is like the difference between Troy Aikman and Quincy Carter playing QB.

    Summary:

    Costa became a starter at the beginning of 2011. He had some miscues at snapping the ball and some miscues in Pass Protection; however, he was a good run blocker. In the 2nd half of that season, after the catastrophic game against the Redskins where they were accused of calling out the snap count, Costa cleaned up his snapping issues and pass blocking issues. He became an ever better run blocker with experience.

    Cook came in as a veteran and started after Costa got injured in game 1. Cook didn't really have problems snapping the ball and his pass-blocking was decent; however, he could not run block in his 1st game and he could not run block in his last game. He just can't do it. He can't get good leverage due to his height and he is too slow footed to make blocks in space.

    Now what they have is Cook and Costa being OK at snapping and pass-blocking with Costa being 100x better than Cook at run blocking.

    The casual fans continue to hate Costa because they remember his failures snapping the ball yet they like Cook who might have been the worst run-blocking OLineman in the league last year.

    Having said all of that, it might not matter how good or bad Bosta really is because he has not been able to stay healthy.

    The good news is that while Bernadeau was terrible at RG, he was much better at OC. Something about having the ball in his hands and knowing exactly when the snap would occur seemed to really help him.
  20. Iago33

    Iago33 Well-Known Member

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    Nice post, XWalker. Was Bern that much better at center? I still thought he was a little below average.

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