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LT review in Ravens Game

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by xwalker, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    It's no secret that Parnell is your pet cat as evidenced by this thread: http://cowboyszone.com/threads/tyron-smith-and-doug-free.292928/

    I'm confused by your comments, are you saying that JG doesn't determine who will start and that it's Jerry who makes the call or that JG has said multiple times it doesn't matter what draft position or the money your getting will determine your playing time?

    Parnell is the epitome of the "progress stopper" on a team that is trying to churn the roster to get better. I know what the swing OT position entails, I'm not asking for the guy to be an all-pro or pro bowler either but his chances of being a legit starter are slim. If there is a player with more potential on this roster than Parnell should be cut but quite frankly I don't expect this staff to make those type of evaluations because they don't have any consistency of being good at that.

    What I do expect is that the guy doesn't give up a sack to a rotational guy on his very first play that he's in the game. I fully understand that giving up sacks is part of the game, but those kind of errors to start are back breakers - literally. If that were Romo taking that kind of shot, this forum would be on a full meltdown.

    What's more is that you have a someone like Broaddus, with legitimate scouting experience and a SB to boot, advocating the same thing about Parnell. He actually gets to watch the practice tape and has a lot more resources than we could ever dream of. A lot of times he will drop hints about certain players/situations that he knows of because of his position.

    As a fan it's difficult to be objective when evaluating players. Take Minter for example, many were quick to give the guy a roster spot based on his play but didn't see his earlier work when the front got steamrolled on the way to the end zone on the Ravens opening drive in the second half. The guy bounced back but, he also faced lesser competition by that point too and played multiple positions.

    Not every player or decision with the Cowboys is a good, smart one, and on the flip side not all is bad, or horrible either.
    Alexander and McLovin like this.
  2. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    You obviously have no idea what a progress stopper is.
  3. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    From what was left on the table, after extensive discussion of technique, history of play, and alternatives available, hey...the guy also got an attaboy from Mclovin in true burn barrel fashion.

    I'm just sorry their educations are so labor intensive that if the knowledge wasn't sufficient as it's own reward...it wouldn't be worth the efforts then. Hey, I appreciated your guys additions to thread.
  4. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Romo is going to get sacked. People are in for disappointment if they expect him to get sacked Zero times this year. Parnell's biggest mistake was not holding the guy. Tyron might have given up a sack if he didn't hold.

    In my review he has 1 big fail and 2 undetermined plays and 32 plays with a passing grade.

    My whole point in these types of reviews regardless of the player involved is that what gets reported and what people "see" watching in real time are often not the truth.

    If you followed Broaddus closely for the past year you would know that Weems was his pet cat like Parnell has become mine. He often reported last season and in the off-season that Weems was doing really well. Then training camp starts and the reports on Weems are worse than the reports on Parnell. Broaddus has to report on the entire team. He probably has to "scout" several players as he goes though the film. I have the luxury to over-focus on 1 or 2 players. I can watch every snap a specific player takes over and over. I really doubt that he has time to do that, especially on players that the majority of fans don't really care about. He's probably watched a lot of Rolando McClain and Romo because that's the players that make for good stories.

    Your take on this Parnell review is basically proving my point. You see 1 sack and "report" that the player is a huge failure. That's the same BS that we get from the media. It's the same mentality that causes 95% of football fans in America to believe that Romo sucks. The majority thought Romo sucked as a player because of the play when Romo was the holder on the field goal back several years ago.

    I did the report in a very simple format that allows anybody to easily compare it to what they see if they review the game footage. I didn't use some magic formula like PFF ratings that are impossible to compare on a play-by-play basis.

    Many of those reports we got from training camp are just not accurate. Twitter causes people to report what is on their mind at that exact minute without considering the surrounding issues. For example there was a report on a specific day about an OLineman dominating Ken Bishop on a specific play. Then someone posts the play on a twitter/vine video and it's clearly obvious that the OLineman has a choke hold on poor ole Ken Bishop. There was no possibility of that not getting called as a penalty in a game, but the reporters just saw that the OL took that Bishop to the ground.

    They reported that the Raiders top pick Mack "whupped" Tyron on a play in the Cowboys-Raiders practices. The video showed that it took 5 full seconds before Mack was free from the block. Holding a block for a full 5 seconds is a huge win for and OLineman. The report made a good story and followed with the narrative that the Cowboys DL must really suck because Tyron has been dominating all of them and then Mack comes in and beats Tyron.

    In regards to Minter, I posted right after the game that he was terrible against the run and got completely blown out when the Ravens ran for a TD. I'm not someone that broke out the anointing oil on Minter after that game.

    In regards to being a progress stopper, whose progress is he stopping? Weems or Wetzel? Weems is injured and hasn't proven anything and Wetzel appears to be RT only. My #1 pet cat and the guy I wanted the Cowboys to draft in the 2nd/3rd round was the OT Billy Turner. If I was as biased about Parnell as you say, then I probably wouldn't be advocating that they draft another OT that would likely be Free's replacement next year or maybe even this year. There's a good chance that if they had drafted Billy Turner that it would have been the end of Parnell because Free's contract is guaranteed for this season. They can keep Wetzel on the practice squad and Weems on IR if they think they might develop in the future. Unlike DLinemen, backup OLinemen are unlikely to be getting any reps in games that would help them develop.

    A progress stopper is a guy that's going to be playing snaps in a season which is realistically a developmental season for this defense. Nick Hayden is a guy with no upside. They have several young guys at the position that could be playing and developing this year. If they keep and play Coleman, Minter and Bishop there's a good chance that at least 1 of them is going to turn into a good player. They all obviously have better physical talent than Hayden, but they need reps at the NFL level. They probably keep 4 DTs and 3 of them are veterans. That doesn't leave much room for developing young players.

    I don't know what it is about a report this this one about Parnell that makes you angry. The game footage is there for everybody to see. It's not like I went to TC and made up some report about practices that everybody can't see.
    dogberry likes this.
  5. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I do these write-ups because I think guys like you are interested in opinions and have the ability to understand that they are just opinions that you can cross reference without your own opinions and decide if my opinions have any value to you or not. I know that you guys realize that I'm not holding a gun to anybody's head forcing them to believe anything.
  6. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    Don't confuse anger with criticism. I'm not angry at all in fact I asked why the sack play wasn't expanded upon with what I believe to be pertinent info.

    You added extra details on the pass plays but not on the sack play.

    Your own intro in the OP stated it was a simple grading method, however, you strayed from that method by not being consistent in your report.
  7. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    If one thought that the sack was of greater importance, then that person should have presented, at a minimum, a logical explanation of how that had greater importance in relevancy. Then backed that up with credible references that proved out a simple site that he had...maybe, that would be born out by other views that included as XWalker did, similarly...but the onus was on you to do the leg work then.

    X, did an evaluation of all information, and arrived at his conclusion. That was the point in his explanation.

    Stand alone points in time and single events, rarely define total effect or even relevancy unless it is indeed a trip stone showing itself. That was shown or pointed out beyond a questioning. Myself, when I question...I want the next winning numbers for a megamillions lotto.


    But this was the comparative analysis provided: My whole point in these types of reviews regardless of the player involved is that what gets reported and what people "see" watching in real time are often not the truth.

    Take it or leave it...
  8. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    No, it was very consistent. I expanded on the plays that were not obvious as to pass or fail. The sack was an obvious fail. How hard is that to understand?
  9. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    CC, no matter how much time I spend trying, I'll never have your talent for putting things into words.

    You really paint a picture with your words.
    CCBoy likes this.
  10. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    Then why on certain "pass plays" the extra stuff?

    How about the chips from Escobar in the 1st half to help? Is that relevant to you?
  11. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I'll say it slowly...the grades are pass fail and un-de-ter-mined. The comments are just comments, they're not grades.

    As I've said multiple times, if you're going to reference something like a play with Escobar doing something, then reference the specific play.
    CCBoy likes this.
  12. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    I'll keep asking then, why the comments on particular plays only? It is a coincidence that only pass plays have glowing comments vs Smith who has comments on every one of his fail grades?

    Do you see the inconsistencies...btw I'm not the only one that mentions this in this thread. It seems like @FuzzyLumpkins agrees with me.

    2nd qtr - 3rd and 12 - 9:53
    2nd qtr - 3rd and 11 - 1:54

    But the real question is why this info also didn't make the comments section?

    Again I feel like this is pertinent info because when tackles struggle they tend to get help on the edge. Factor in the level of competition that he is playing against and that he is getting help doesn't exactly illustrate that the coaches are confident leaving him on an island.
  13. NeonDeion21

    NeonDeion21 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all that. He has to drive Frank Pollack crazy because he can look so dominant on one play and then it may be awhile before you see it again. I actually wish I could see him as a RT with the first team. I want to see how he plays with better guards.

    But as for evaluating him in this game, I just have a hard time saying anything concrete without having the All-22. I thought he was a lot better this week than last and I give him a lot of credit playing on a bad leg.
  14. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    It's takes a lot of time to comment on everything. There are plays were there is a run to the opposite side an the OL on the backside don't really have to do much. I'm not going to put all of that in the analysis.

    Again, the grades were the intention of the report and the comments are just extra.

    I'm not sure that Escobar even touched the defender at 1:54. On the 9:53 it's not much of a block by Escobar. They gave Doug Free all kinds of help last year and he was a starter.

    If you want to pay me, then I'll comment on everything; otherwise, I'm going to give each play a grade and only comment on some of them.
  15. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Well then, since Doug Free gets assistance both on the inside and outside...how can he be described as a very stable right offensive tackle now...and, deserving of his last contract, using your observational standards?

    Those questions can be follow up questions as well...the posting provides a lot of oppositional comparison...while X is providing a ton of research as well as a long line of documentation by others and himself. Now, when do you provide more than a cover-one's-act film review and a similar work of value....like equal contributions to topical discussion.

    If one wanted a lawyer to waste time and money upon, he would hire one for a discussion on a similar type of thread. At least a wife finds family related reasons for their consistent questioning...rather than an argument as a start point.

    By all means show us some non-discerned information as a start point now...
  16. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Predicting Statistics for Each Cowboys Defensive Player
    Dan Turner
    http://cowboysnation.com/2014/07/predicting-statistics-defensive.html



    [IMG]

    Last Friday, I looked at predicting offensive numbers, this time I predict defensive numbers. This is much harder. Most of the Cowboys offense are known quantities. We pretty much know all the starters, with the exception of a couple of positions. On the defensive side of the ball, virtually everything is unpredictable. There are question marks over every player, whether through ability, injury, or unknowns. I will still attempt to tackle this though.


    Defensive Line

    NamePrimary PositionStartsCombined TacklesForced FumblesSacks
    Terrell McClain1-Tech163511.5
    George SelvieLDE103015
    Henry Melton3-Tech103026
    Jeremy MinceyRDE83005
    DeMarcus LawrenceRDE82516
    Tyrone Crawford3-Tech64514.5
    Anthony SpencerLDE63002
    Nick Hayden1-Tech02000
    Ben GardnerLDE0900
    Davon Coleman1-Tech0901

    The biggest difference between the defensive line of last year to this year is the rotation. The ‘starts’ column doesn’t mean that much therefore. For example, although I only have Crawford down to start 6 games, due to his versatility of being able to play left defensive end, 1-technique, and 3-technique, he could play more snaps than anyone on the defensive line this year.

    I imagine McClain starts every game at 1-technique this year, but he will likely be replaced on obvious running plays by Hayden (or Ken Bishop if he beats him out), and Crawford or Coleman on obvious passing plays. He’ll get into the backfield more than Hayden was able to do last year, but his primary aim should be to hold the line.

    At 3-technique, Melton was the big free agency addition, and he will start when he’s fit. Coming off a torn ACL, it’s tough predicting Melton to play a full season though. Crawford will start when Melton is out, and another intriguing name to consider who I didn’t include here is Ben Bass. I predicted Melton and Crawford to get 10.5 sacks combined, but that could increase depending on how they recover from their respective injuries.

    At right defensive end, Mincey will probably start the season. Again though, with rotation, Lawrence will get plenty of opportunity. Expect Lawrence to take over mid-season. Don’t expect huge sack numbers from Lawrence in his rookie season, just purely due to it being his rookie season and young age...
  17. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    (this article was done back in July...and obvious needs updating as to Kevin Bass, and the acquired Rolando McClain) But it does an adequate job of projecting a comparison for expectations to come.
  18. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    Let me try this again.

    You aren't going to get my dime because I see a flaw in your reports.

    I'd also add, that @FuzzyLumpkins did a thorough analysis and never asked for money.

    For future reference, if you can't explain your reports and resort to asking for money you will lose readers/posters.
  19. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    It's a joke about the money. Did you really not get that...

    It appears that several people did understand the report.
  20. CCBoy

    CCBoy Well-Known Member

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    Around here, we usually just end up leaving the don't rain on my parade folks on the porch - brooding, while we all go in and eat home made ice cream!

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