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Mancow Waterboarded, Admits It's Torture

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by SuspectCorner, May 22, 2009.

  1. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    When the point is political stereotyping, yes.

    Many from the Right that you and others on the Left dislike so much are calling it torture. They are also saying they don't care. A very small minority don't think it is torture and that is because their party has ordered them to and they follow those orders.

    Painting the entire party because of a few is disingenuous and you knew my point. I wasn't being cryptic.

    I'm not one of your political punching bags. I show you respect and you return it by pointing fingers at my intentions. Yeah, I'd have to say that sucks from where I sit.
  2. SuspectCorner

    SuspectCorner Bromo

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    What political stereotyping? Six or seven contributors to this thread have voiced an "uncertainty" about, if not an outright denial of, waterboarding as a form of torture.

    And by pointing this out I'm using you as a punching bag? C'mon, Hos... that's not a fair assessment.
  3. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I hope this will help you.

    http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153935

    My vote was yes.
  4. SuspectCorner

    SuspectCorner Bromo

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    Peace, brother Hostile. Peace.

    You're the man with the chair and whip standing center ring and holding off the lions so the rest of us can enjoy the circus. I might mess with my mods a little bit - but I don't try to torpedo them.

    Your opinion needn't EVER be mine. All is good with me - and I hope with you, as well.
  5. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I don't mind disagreement SC. I thrive on that.

    Some on the Right don't have a problem with the waterboarding and the general belief behind that is that it must mean they don't think it is torture.

    Yet a bunch of guys from the Right admit it is torture right in this thread. When they do that, why is it necessary to keep pounding your point home that it is torture and they are wrong? Are they wrong if they agree with you that it is?

    I personally believe anyone who says it is not torture is saying so for one reason and one reason only. They simply can't be honest about it because their party is the one being vilified for it. Therefore it must be defended at all costs.

    Look, I defended the practice. Why? All you need to do is see my post about it going on for decades and my belief that it will continue to go on and you know why. I am sorry to tell you SC that Presidents from your precious Left have condoned the use of torture. Have ordered assassinations. Have sent soldiers to war where they have died. Have condoned things that were pretty far from diplomatic. Your current President does it and the next one from the Left will too.

    How can you preach about "moral code" if your side is guilty of the exact same practices?

    It's time for all of you partisan political experts to accept the fact that your party is not perfect and the other party is not entirely evil.
  6. trickblue

    trickblue Old Testament... Zone Supporter

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    ^^This^^
  7. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    That's true and kudos to him for that. But that man would have no idea what really constitutes torture. For all we know getting a really bad haricut is torture to him.
  8. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    The guy under the water probably had a wife and a family too. We know at least he had a family.
  9. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

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    Nah, I don't see it. She's making a distinction between whether someone tells you "don't smoke" as opposed to "you shouldn't smoke." They have the same effect.

    OK one's technically a command and one's a recommendation, but in reality they're both recommendations. Smoking isn't against the law, and unless you're underage and living in your parent's house, no one can really force you not to smoke. So when someone tells you "don't smoke," it's a suggestion.

    Either way, if someone says that to you, then turns around and smokes themselves, then most people would instantly make the judgment in their heads that the person is either a hypocrite or just weak.
  10. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    Do you feel that water boarding is a just means to obtain information?
  11. ShiningStar

    ShiningStar Well-Known Member

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    Oh you mean the single guy whos giving up his life to blow innocent people up so he can go to his version of heaven and be rewarded for following his people.

    That guy? Yeah hes your buddy, when his wrapped ticking present come, be a good fellow and open it up for us. WE'll see what you and your family thinks of waterboarding than.
  12. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    What if someone says, "You shouldn't smoke, but go ahead and do it because it feels so good."

    That's not hypocritical. The "you shouldn't smoke" doesn't get you to hypocritical logically.

    I think most people equate the words "you shouldn't smoke" with "don't smoke" and that's why they would jump to the conclusion that the person is a hypocrite, but logically they just don't have the same meaning.

    Like you said, in reality, the person is just weak. For the longest time when I was a smoker, I knew it was wrong. I knew I should quit. I wanted to quit. I wanted others to quit. But I couldn't. That didn't make me a hypocrite.
  13. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    If he has a wife then he's a sorry piece of trash for leaving her and his family behind for jihad. He should be home making a living to support his family and teach them how to get along in this world.

    I don't feel an ounce of remorse for these cockroaches.
  14. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    And no one is calling him a hypocrite for fighting, are they?
    It seems the poor sap on the losing end is the only one granted the benefit of the doubt, while the guy winning is some how wrong.
  15. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    I agree. The question is who will command the commanders? That seems to be the fundamental question behind the article. To what extent do we push our moral codes, our "oughts" and value systems on the law when we make law by our actions. And then to what extent do we set the example and standard to how people ought to treat us?

    It seems the pro-torture types are for it, yet if it were used against us we'd be up in arms ready to trump them morally and ethically and wage all out war for this. There are legitimacy costs on both ends of the spectrum. I argue it's in our best interest not to torture because of what we claim to stand for. There are other options, and we have brilliant expert interrogators. If you ask me a 24/48/76 hour interrogation could get just as much done as water boarding.

    As you know, from a realism standpoint, the law (or commands) aren't what the law says anyways. Law is a mere source for the judges to rationalize their decisions or, from an adversary perspective the lawyers probablistic prediction about what the law will do. In any case, my point is we set our own example when are actions include torture. And we probably ought not to expect any different when it comes our turn.
  16. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

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    That was not the hypothetical presented. If the person qualifies it, then it's inconsistent, and I know right off the bat that I don't need to make a judgment because that person can't complete the sentence without contradicting himself.

    They may not technically have the same meaning, but in reality, those words alone do have the same meaning. I don't differentiate between the two because someone telling me "don't smoke" doesn't have the power to force me to follow their command. It's still just a suggestion.

    Apparently if you had told people "don't smoke" you would have been a hypocrite, but not if you were telling people they "shouldn't smoke." I don't buy it.

    Regardless, I think everyone is a hypocrite on some level. So I'm not saying you're any less of a person.
  17. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    And there's the root of the issue right there. Technically it's not hypocrisy. And as a lawyer, I'm sure you see the need to be precise in language.

    In every day language, equating the two is okay and the expedient thing to do. But if we're going to have a precise discussion about the language, then you have to have a precise discussion about the language.
  18. peplaw06

    peplaw06 That Guy

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    Probably not... but everything depends on your perspective.

    If someone threatens my family, I may do something that I feel is justified when the law doesn't agree with me. Doesn't necessarily mean from my point of view I will feel any less justified.
  19. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I wasn't asked, but I will answer. It doesn't bother me even one little bit.
  20. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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