Mandatory 25% tip

Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by joseephuss, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Looks like I can scratch visiting San Francisco off my list of things to do.

    The dining tax: San Francisco restaurants want standard 25% tip

    Proposals already causing anger among diners

    It's a question regularly asked by baffled diners all over the world: 'How much should I tip'?

    Many countries have wide variations for a standard tip, often leaving even the most experienced of travellers confused.

    However, restaurant workers in San Francisco, California, may be about to help by implementing a standard tip onto the bill.

    The only problem is that - whether your service is good or bad - it would be a whopping 25 per cent.

    The Contra Costa Times newspaper claims the proposals already have support from some high-class restaurants.
  2. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    Way to drive down business.

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    People are friggin cheap.

    If you go out - expect to spend a little extra.

    If you receive good/great service - go above and beyond. Whats the big deal. Is an extra $5 or $10 or $20 going to kill ya?

    I have no problem overtipping if they went out of there way to "enhance the dining experience"

    I was once at a place where I overheard my waitress say, "they left me a $1 dollar tip"

    I asked her, "did I hear you right? a one dollar tip"?

    She said yes, I dont understand I was nice and did all the asked and was attentive etc.

    I told her, "dont worry, I have got you covered (for them)"

    She was so grateful, I told you are welcome but not necessary to over thank me.

    It was just the right thing to do!
  4. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I worked as a waiter and as a bartender for 10 years. I think the issue in SF is probably 2 things:

    1) The economy in California is so bad, people have to tip less.

    2) The 'sticker shock' for tourists that leaving a tip of 20% is much more than they were looking to spend.

    Not really the best of ideas, but I don't think people are going to stop going to restaurants all together over it.

    I typically tip about 30% if the service is pretty good, which it typically is in Florida. In Atlanta, I developed a habit of leaving 15% tips because the service there...for whatever reason...was the worst I've ever seen in a city.

  5. Wimbo

    Wimbo Active Member

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    I start at 20%. That can go up or down depending on the service.
    15% is considered a normal tip, no server should expect more.
  6. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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    We've been down this road before

    A tip should not be mandatory at any time.
  7. jimnabby

    jimnabby Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    It's time to abandon tips entirely. Pay restaurant workers a normal hourly wage, like all other employees, and set menu prices to what the market will bear (presumably around 20% higher than now). Legislating a fixed tip is just an overly complicated way to accomplish the same thing.
  8. basstapp

    basstapp Well-Known Member

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    I typically take the first number and double it. Easiest way to get a good tip in my eyes. I am not sure if wait staff should be frustrated with people ordering food. The food is marked up already an insane amount and its that of their employer who decided they make jack hourly.

    In my life i try to tip 20-25% unless the service is just horrendous.
  9. chip_gilkey

    chip_gilkey Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely ridiculous. Should you tip, yes. Should you be forced to tip 25% no matter what the service is like, no.

    If the service is terrible then you tip 10-15%. If its excellent you tip 25%. If it's mediocre you tip about 20%.

    If servers know they're going to get 25% every time what incentive is there to actually provide good service?
  10. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    I have no problem tipping; I don't want to be forced to regardless of service and at a fixed price. It's lame.
  11. MonsterD

    MonsterD Quota outta absentia

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    Someone posted this here before I think

  12. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I thought they raised the 'normal tip' to 20%.

    When I lived in NY, I got paid $2.99 an hour and then at a different restaurant, $3.25 an hour for waiting tables. This was when the minimum wage was $4.25 an hour. When I was working as a bartender, I got minimum wage and the tips.

    I then moved to South Carolina for college....$2.13 an hour. Completely sucked. Every where else I went it was the same.

    Cost of living has gone up as well. I think it should be 20%, but it shouldn't be mandatory unless you have tables of 6+ people. In those situations, the server is often relegated to taking care of only that table and if they get stiffed on a're looking at people making $2.13 an hour.

  13. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    It's very simple .. tips are a way of the customers subsidizing the salaries of employees for the employers. In other words, in business, you don't spend money you don't have to and if you can get someone else to pay your expenses (in this case, the customers), why not?

    The problem comes from the slow economy and high cost of living in certain markets, especially the San Francisco area. In tough times, customers eat out less and spend less when they do as an average. That means employees generate less money from tips which of course lowers their salary. In other words, the employees are working the same job, the same hours and yet making less money.

    There are two ways to deal with this issue. The first and more logical way is to raise the base pay of employees who rely on tips. After all, the customers were subsidizing the salaries for the business owners, so the business owners are responsible for covering the amount lost due to less spending by customers.

    The second way to deal with it is to raise the prices either on the product (food in this case) or the service (employees). If they raise the price on the product, the customers will notice it more upfront and will direct their anger or irritation at the business. If they get the city to force not only a flat tip percentage but also one higher than most people pay, any irritation will be directed at the city or at worst, the employees.

    The problem with the second option, and this is a concept that businesses rarely comprehend, is that when prices go up, consumers cut back. The post office has continued to raise the price of stamps and when people start sending fewer letters, they blame the internet. While there is truth that the internet has hurt the postal system, the postal system escalated the problem by raising prices which further pushed people toward alternatives.

    Where I live, there was a new commercial development area that was built including a sports arena. The local city wanted to add $0.03 additional sales tax in that area which is where most take out places and restaurants are located to help keep the price of parking down at the arena. When the sales tax was put up for vote, the people overwhelmingly voted against it. So then the city mayor came back and said you either vote for the sales tax at the next election or all property taxes in the city (not just that area) would increase to compensate. Unsurprisingly, the sales tax passed during the next vote and also unsurprisingly, the mayor was not re-elected next year.

    In the end, the people will win the battle. Forcing people to do things and telling them how to live will ultimately yield a worse situation than you are currently trying to improve. In the short term, the results will look great at the cost of the long term.

  14. Rynie

    Rynie Benched

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    There's absolutely NO POINT in tipping more than 15-20%. I don't mind tipping at all, just the right amount. Hell, I'll even tip dirty e-girl fans...
  15. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    Wages for lots of restaurant work were set really low, but in compensation you got tips, which were not taxable. Then they decided to tax the tips, but never really upped the low hourly wage.

    When I worked in restaurants, I came away with the opinion that generally, lawyers and management were the worst tippers, while secretaries, office drones, and construction workers were really good about it.

  16. Teren_Kanan

    Teren_Kanan Well-Known Member

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    Whatever. I don't care either way.

    If they make tip mandatory, and you get bad service, you will complain and get some of your meal comped anyhow and it will balance out.

    I cannot remember the last time I got bad service. It so rarely happens.
  17. rkell87

    rkell87 Well-Known Member

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    it depends on where you go and where you live. live in a college town, get college worker type service and so forth
  18. rkell87

    rkell87 Well-Known Member

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    I will play devil's advocate for a second here. First let me just say I do not agree with a mandatory 25% tip. However I do not believe the majority of servers will just start giving crap service to everybody. I'm not saying it is right but, from my experience most servers know exactly what kind of service they are going to give you as they are walking to your table. It may change a bit depending on your order(soda and burger vs alcohol and steak) but pretty much they know. They have to determine how much of their time you are going to be worth. A hefty mandatory tip my just raise the level of service that a lot of people normally experience. just my .02
  19. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    I went to Germany and numerous other countries which don't have the custom of tipping. The service was fine, even better than here in the US for the most part. So, no, service will not decline if tips are included in the price.

    When I worked in a restaurant, the owner told me the federal government assumed tips would be 17% and taxes deducted based on that. I don't know if true or not. I never verified it. If true, then the servers are getting screwed with anyone tipping less than 17%. And Uncle Sam is getting screwed out of taxes with tips greater than 17%. Remove all guesswork, and include it in the price.

    Tipping is an arcane and ridiculously stupid custom. Yet it continues to this day. Go figure.

    Tips don't bother me as much as uneccessarily oversized meals. Bigger meals equal bigger profits. It is nearly impossible to get a "normal" sized meal for one at a restaurant. My wife and I can order one meal and one dessert (or appetizer) and it will suffice. I worked at a restaurant and was appalled at the amount of food that is thrown away (and the amount of money wasted by customers). Sure, some eat the leftovers but an equal number have it boxed to-go only to throw it away when they get home (or in the nearest garbage can from the door).

    And, another thing I noticed working in restaurants: for the most part, many fat people don't really eat a lot of food at the restaurant. They do drink a lot of high calorie drinks though, in my experience. Maybe they eat again when they get home.
  20. MC KAos

    MC KAos Well-Known Member

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    as a former waiter during college, this is a REALLY stupid idea and the reason is that you are basically taking away any incentive for the waiter to provide great service! if i knew i was gonna get 25% no matter what i wouldnt bust my butt to make sure i got the orders in as soon as they were ready, everyone had drinks at all times, their food came out promptly, their dirty plates were taken away quickly, and their check came and paid for quickly.

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