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McCain's Education Plan - scary?

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by VietCowboy, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    "We need to encourage programs such as Teach for America and Troops to Teachers where people, after having served in the military, can go right to teaching and not have to take these examinations which -- or have the certification that some are required in some states.

    Look, we must improve education in this country."

    Why shouldn't teachers be required to take certification? and get re-certified every few years??? Doesn't that lower the standards?
  2. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Considering the lousy state of our education system below college, and the lack of disicpline and other problems in those schools, ex military would fit the bill quite well. Of course that is too obvious for you to figure it out.
  3. DaBoys4Life

    DaBoys4Life Benched

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    Colleges are BS also
  4. Hypnotoad

    Hypnotoad Active Member

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    I was watching CNN and women did not like that at all.

    [IMG]

    It seemed very irresponsible. Just because the education system is lousy doesn't mean we should send ex-military to fit teaching jobs. There has been research conducted that proves that those who served in the military have leadership qualities, are excellent managers of people, are trustworthy and responsible in doing their job. Would they make good teachers? I am not sure, it depends on the person and their expertise in the topic they must teach. I don't know how McCain can just remove some of the qualification and certification checks just because someone is a veteran.
  5. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    I didn't get that either. The way he made it sound is that if you served in the military, you could walk right out and be employed as a teacher with no certification or test to make sure you're actually qualified to do it.

    That seems a bit...off.
  6. Wheat

    Wheat Philosopher

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    Line of the year!


    Colleges are BS also?

    I am all for Military Folks becoming teachers. First, I think if they served, they should get a free education at the best institutions in this country. Then go teach wherever you'd like.

    Its a shame that McCain voted against a better GI Bill that would go towards providing such education because it might hurt reenlistment.
  7. dbair1967

    dbair1967 Arch Defender

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    Couldnt be any worse than the piss-poor government education system we have in place already. It's pathetic.

    Thats why I support school choice and vouchers for private schools.
  8. NinePointOh

    NinePointOh Well-Known Member

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    In McCain's defense, Troops To Teachers is already a fully functioning program with various prerequisites designed to ensure that participants are qualified. There are also plenty of other alternative routes to teacher certification besides military service, which are used by tens of thousands of new teachers every year:

    http://www.teach-now.org/intro.cfm
  9. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    but McCain's saying they DON'T need teacher certification.
  10. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Considering the all too many duds in the system now who HAVE certificates, only a minion of the teachers unions would try and argue THAT point.
  11. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Active Member

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    Teaching certificates are a joke pure and simple. Texas has a certificate process and it is a joke they take all these classes that have nothing to do with any subject they teach and yet they can teach a Biology class having only taken the pre-req in college.

    Yet a person who has a Masters Degree can not teach in the Texas School system with out all these worthless classes and stupid certificates.

    Please the certificates are a joke kind of like getting an MCSE
  12. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    So what you are saying is we should not have ANY standards at all except what that the teachers have a Masters degree in the study they are doing. Who cares if they should learn education or take workshops in child abuse, etc?

    I guess since I came from NY, here are their laws regarding teaching certification:

    In New York State - Math


    To teach in a public school in New York State, prospective teachers first get a provisional certification, then permanent certification. However, you can teach in many private schools with a Bachelor of Arts in mathematics.


    In order to get provisional certification in New York State you need: 36 hours of mathematics, 18 hours of education, student teaching practicum, and two workshops (child abuse recognition and drug). You can send a transcript and evidence of taking certain required workshops to the state and get provisional approval. You can later use work experience in lieu of practice teaching. You do not need to go through an accredited program to get certified.
    Eventually, you will need a masters to get permanent certification in most states. One good route is to get a Master of Arts in Teaching (MAT), a professional degree usually requiring 1.5-2 years after a Bachelor of Arts.
  13. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives. Zone Supporter

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    What I don't get is the whole Tenure thing...Why to teachers get guaranteed jobs ? They should be judged like the rest of the workforce based on their merrits year to year.

    I've been in IT in one form or another for 25 years, does this mean I can't be fired ?

    That is the one thing I liked about what McCain said, lets get rid of bad teachers !
  14. NinePointOh

    NinePointOh Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a McCain fan by any means, but that's not really what he's saying. He said he wants to encourage the Troops To Teachers program - what you're describing would entail completely and drastically overhauling it. Certification through TTT isn't the same route to certification that other teachers would generally receive, but it's still certification with measures and prerequisites to ensure qualification, and it's just one of many widely used alternative routes to the classroom.
  15. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    i feel the states should decide their own educational system, or at least have more say in it. what scares me is obama saying the government needs to come in and fix it all up.

    like they do so well.

    the government needs to quit assuming it's the end-all-be-all, but i see obama time and again saying the gov is the answer.
  16. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    i may get hammered by teachers, but i feel when you pay $35-$40 a year, you get that level of quality. i know some people are in teaching out of love, and that's great. there are some very talented teachers out there and i've been fortuante enough in my life to have some good ones along the way.

    i've had my share of bad ones too.

    if i can make $100,000 doing something else, why would i take my mind/skillset to be a teacher for 1/3 that? if we want better quality teachers and people being teachers, we have to pay accordingly.

    i don't think this is the *whole* problem to be sure but it's an issue i don't see a way out of with hard talk and more government.
  17. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Active Member

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    Hahaha

    No what should happen is teachers should be evaluated like every real job and you either keep your job or get fired. You can have requirements like a College Degree (hey I worked at places like that) but the certificate process is a joke and nothing more but a bureaucratic nightmare that waste money.

    You do like any other job hire and fire on Merit
  18. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    um, so you don't want lawyers to take the Bar exam or your doctors to take licensing exam. Hey, he's got an MD, who cares??
  19. MilesAustinforMVP

    MilesAustinforMVP Benched

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    But but... He's a POW!
  20. VietCowboy

    VietCowboy Be Realistic. Demand the Impossible.

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    he did not say alternate route, he said they don't have to be certified, that are required in some states. I can understand going through different routes, I actually contemplated and looked at TFA's application process.

    They can get provisionally license, but I feel at the end of the day, the should strive to continue to take workshops, maybe go on to get a masters, to get permanently license, just like many professional fields that work directly with people. I know in my field and medicine, people need to get licensed and re-certified every few years to make sure they up to snuff on the latest stuff, ethics (especially important). I think teachers should have that same standard.

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