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McShay/Kiper 1st round mocks V.2 2/7/13....

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Risen Star, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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  2. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    LOVE both mocks.

    These guys can play. Really play.
  3. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    wow.

    that went waaaaaaaay over your head.


    Posted from Cowboyszone.com App for Android
  4. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    its funny you make a most clueless statement right after stating the cluelessness of the average fan.


    Posted from Cowboyszone.com App for Android
  5. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Not stunning but certainly a stretch.

    People love to pretend it is all about the trenches but that is very seldom the case. This is a league where you can fall behind by 20 with a terrible run game and no blocking yet come back and win 34-31.

    Dallas needs to get better on both lines because it makes the game easier but having quality lines do not lead to wins nearly so much as having quality skill players.

    I want Dallas to draft trench heavy because we are terribly weak there but it won't matter unless Romo/Dez and a RB play well. While some of that is on the OL the rest is simply whether they make the plays.

    The DL is gonna be a key but a healthy Lee and Carter are bigger issues. Those two have elite talent and can protect a soft DL. If they get hurt we'll likely have blocking dummies behind them.
  6. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    Sadly you are 100% correct.


    Posted from Cowboyszone.com App for Android
  7. StanleySpadowski

    StanleySpadowski Active Member

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    It's not really stunning if you pay attention. Look at the last 10 Super Bowl winners. It would be hard to argue that there's a great OL in the bunch. Heck, the Ravens shuffled their OL for the playoffs because they were performing so badly. Dallas' only real issues in '12 was lack of even piss poor depth. Dockery as the 3rd guard was embarrassing and while Cook was admirable, he was realistically the 5th string center being forced into something he wasn't ready for. He had 7-8 minutes to learn the system before being pressed into starting. A healthy Costa playing the full year with Cook as an interior backup, plus Parnell, who has shown he can play, backing up at tackle and the '12 line is better than Baltimore's even if Romo was handing off to Jones instead of Rice.

    The DL will have a star in Ware, one of the better interior rushers in the league in Hatcher and two others. Most teams would kill to have two plus players in the front four, not mentioning one of them being a plus, plus. If motivated and healthy, a switch to the 4-3 might just get Ratliff into plus territory also.

    If you could point to one reason Dallas didn't make the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl in '12, what would it be? I would argue that the lack of turnovers by the defense was it (even when healthy, but that's a separate argument). The safeties were flat out terrible. They didn't make plays and their lack of skill kept the corners from gambling because they couldn't trust the safeties. I honestly believe that trading safeties with Baltimore or San Francisco would have had Dallas deep in the playoffs and with a little luck the Super Bowl while neither of those two would have made the playoffs with McCray seeing the field.
  8. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    We won't win the SB with the safeties we started last year. That much is certainly accurate. Then again we may not even have the guys who started last year still on the roster.

    If Matt Johnson and Barry Church can really play Safety isn't a big need. That is a coaches call. If they can't we can't wait around for the draft and will need a FA at the position.

    Livings and Bern can play OG they just arent plus players there. They aren't off the street free agent bad so we probably can wait and let the draft add talent there.
  9. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Is this one of those who can top who contests?
  10. NeonDeion21

    NeonDeion21 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how tempted Jerry and Jason would be if Geno fell to #18.
  11. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    I doubt the head coach would be tempted. The GM and VP of Personnel might.
  12. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    No he isn't 100% correct.

    Dallas invested quite heavily in Tyron Smith.

    Dallas hasn't drafted an OG very high but they have simply missed on guys in rounds 3 and 4. Other teams have OGs from rounds 3 and 4 in the Pro Bowl. It isnt investment but failure to identify the proper players.
    If Robert Brewster and David Arkin were average NFL players we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Should Dallas have considered an OG last year at 14? No. 14 is too high. The proof? The highest rated OG went 24.

    Should they at 18? Yes. If he is the highest rated player on the board then the 2nd half of round 1 is where you start to look at that position.

    I think Warmack is a far better player than DeCastro. He moves the pile. He is a Larry Allen type. He makes DL want to quit. He isn't just winning; he is dominating.

    Jerry Jones has put Larry Allen in the ring of honor and will introduce him into the Hall of Fame. It is beyond silly to argue he doesn't value the OL.

    We may well draft OG at 18 and we ABSOLUTELY do so if Jones believes Warmack is the next Larry Allen and he is sitting there.
  13. JIMMYBUFFETT

    JIMMYBUFFETT Skinwalker

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    Agree. There won't be a player drafted in the first round by the Cowboys who's last name doesn't end with lineman. O-line or D-line, it will be one of the two. Vaccaro doesn't really impress me and I've watched every game he's played. People keep calling him a ball hawk and the kid has had a grand total of 5 interceptions in 4 years. I see him as more of a strong safety, and I think he'd make a great one. He's a fantastic tackler and great special teams player. TJ McDonald who played under Kiffin is the safety that everybody better keep an eye on. He can step into Kiffin's system and play day one.
  14. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    It is a contest of keeping the extremists from arguing pure drivel before it affects everyone else.

    His point about questionable OLs winning SBs is completely factual.

    Average rank over the previous ten years isn't even top 10 much less elite. The Giants won last year with an OL ranked in the 20s.

    The Ravens DL was so bad at times that Dallas truly manhandled them with our awesome OL.

    Last year Dallas ranked in the 20s for OL play.
    They ranked in the 30s for Safety play.

    The DL went from a team strength to a weakness due to attrition and injuries.
  15. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Fan sentiment is meaningless.
    We all loved the Tyron Smith pick but by and large hated Bruce Carter, DeMarco Murray and others.

    Dallas has to trust the board. Add talent and then fans will care less about who they use to love in the off-season.

    I personally hated the Bruce Carter pick but I'd be perfectly happy wearing a Carter jersey now. He can flat play.
  16. JIMMYBUFFETT

    JIMMYBUFFETT Skinwalker

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    I wasn't really agreeing on the fan sentiment but rather the idea of OL or DL in the first, I just didn't word it right. I agree what the fans want has zero barring and I believe Dallas will stick to their board. I just think they'll have about 20 linemen ranked in front of Vaccaro.
  17. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't see Larry Allen in Warmack.
  18. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    I agree with you there.

    I don't think Vaccaro is an r1 player.
    I think he is a player you can win with but this isn't Earl Thomas.

    I'd rate him r2.
  19. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Warmack is much like the 33 year old version of Allen IMO.

    No one is like the 24 year old version.
  20. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Fair enough. My issue is that the 33 year old version of Allen, IMO, is not worth a 1st round pick. Good player but I see that player at RG.

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