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News: Mel Kiper: Beyond Morris Claiborne, Cowboys didn’t get much from 2012 draft

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    So wait, you're saying he's not an impact player because of the people in front of him?

    Or are you saying that Morris Claiborne doesn't have impact player ability?

    What do you think was really at fault? Talent evaluation? Or overall plan?
  2. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    It has the potential for a higher grade than a C+ but we have to see if Carter and Murray can stay on the field first. That's why they were there in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. They couldn't stay on the field. Well, they haven't been able to stay healthy in the NFL so far either.
  3. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Cornerbacks aren't impact players. Deion was. I can't think of another.

    Had we have added comparable talents like Carr and Claiborne to the front seven instead of at CB, you would have seen an immediate impact to our defense. Not just their play, everybody around them. Instead we saw the same defense we've always seen.

    In this instance, I'd say the plan was flawed. You can't win that way. Claiborne has talent. He's just not an impact player. This was as bad of a decision as signing Carr to all that money. A horrible waste of resources.

    If the Cowboys ever fix this issue then you can see those two corners make plays and convince yourself they're the driving force behind it. I'll never agree with it.
  4. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    That's where I disagree with you. Of course I agree with the principle that building up the trenches is the best way to go, but I for one never saw this team getting fixed in one year.

    Therefore I'm not looking at adding 2 corners as an awful decision.

    How would you feel if they beef up the defensive and offensive lines this coming year and already have the corners behind them ready to go?

    I honestly don't think there's a correct way to build a team in terms of which players you get first... not in today's league at least. So acquire the talent where you can, and then fill in later.

    And it's my belief that there is far more 'trench talent' this year than DB.

    We have different philosophies and that's fine. But I'd rather have a few studs in important positions than a lot of B players in many positions (we saw a lot of that in the past, and it wasn't pretty). You have to sacrifice to do that.
  5. DBOY3141

    DBOY3141 Well-Known Member

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    Way to early to grade a draft class, but this is Kiper's job and the NFL draft and it's followers are big money to ESPN.

    It has the potential to be a good draft. Claiborne, Crawford could both be starters next year. Hannah will be the #2 TE and a weapon, which in this offense is basically a starter. If we can get anything from Wilbur and Johnson then that's gravy.

    Any draft that produces 3 starters in 2 years is a success. I don't like the trade up for Mo, but he is a good player and will help the team.

    I hope JJ doesn't get cute with this draft, we need OL and DL help in a bad way.
  6. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Jenkins too. lol


    Otherwise, Kiper's comments about the quality of that draft--if judged this early--are fairly accurate.
    I was not a big fan of that trade up last year for several reasons, but it could have been worse.

    Still, it would not surprise me if we get longer term contributions from:
    Claiborne--starter and possible future Pro Bowler
    Crawford--possible starter, or rotation guy
    Johnson--possible starter or rotation guy
    Hanna--valuable rotation guy
    Coale--possible rotation guy and ST help
    Wilber--possible rotation guy and ST help

    But he is right in his assessment as of right now.
  7. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    I'd like to have the best players everywhere on the field. It's just not realistic in this era of salary cap football. You have to pick and choose where to spend. Now we're sitting here just as needy along the offensive and defensive lines this spring, but with 6 picks and less cap room.

    I'll be honest, I wouldn't have loved committing 50 million and 1st and 2nd round picks on two offensive linemen. I'd like it a heck of a lot more than two cornerbacks but that's still an alarming amount of resources on two players. They'd have to be a couple of All Pros to justify it.
  8. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Then NFL GMs are misallocating resources en mass. Going rate for a starting corner is $7 or $8 million. That is not an elite corner just a guy like Thomas for the Giants with 3 ACLs or $8mm for Eric Wright or 9mm for Leon Hall coming off of an achilles.

    It is a premium position. Those guys are being paid as such.
  9. jjktkk

    jjktkk Active Member

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    The defensive front 7 was not considered a weakness last year. The secondary was.
  10. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying that we just can't afford to pay corners that much? That's fair. Especially seeing how we overpay to retain our declining players.
  11. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    We can't afford to pay somebody. The salary cap won't allow it. I think you can agree with me on that.

    Using that money on Carr has a direct impact on what we can do elsewhere. Using those two picks on Claiborne certainly cost us two players at other positions.

    To me it comes down to maximizing value and getting the most bang for your buck. What the Cowboys ended up doing with those resources was the worst case scenario for me.
  12. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    No, its not. And its why this team continually has more holes than it can fill every offseason because while we may we hit on our first or 2nd round, everyone picked afterwards is a dud.
  13. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about that. It should be that way, but do you know how many players the Giants have hit on in the last 4 years? It averages out to be about 1 per year.

    No one from last year, if we're grading today. Amukamura from 2011. Jason Pierre Paul from 2010. and Hakeem Nicks / William Beatty from 2009 (although Beatty has just now become an impact player).

    But, Jason Pierre Paul and Hakeem Nicks made all the difference in 2011 when they won the superbowl.
  14. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    I dunno about that. Of course it affects what we can do in the immediate future, but when it comes to the trenches I think you can draft viable pieces to the OL and DL the next few years and still be okay on the cap, and I think that's exactly what Dallas is looking to do. And when Carr's contract is up, choose not to re-up on Carr (which they won't) or Claiborne.
  15. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Nobody drafts at a great level for a sustained period of time outside of maybe Pittsburgh. Our main problem is that we will have huge holes where other teams will make a nice $3mm free agent signing to fill a gap at a guard position; we will roll the dice on a late round pick.

    Look at the Ravens, they don't put a Danny McCray level player on the field.

    It is also why the thought of taking a guard in the first round is insane to me. I'd rather have 2 good guards than one great one.
  16. Zimmy Lives

    Zimmy Lives Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Once again it is a perfect example of Jerry getting splash for his buck rather than bang. Claiborne was a good pick but, overall, he was not a great value. This team could have used a center, guard, or tackle who would have provided valuable depth if not starting material.

    As for the rest of the players, except for Coale, they are all big question marks.
  17. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    Love draft reviews after one year.

    That Colin Kaepernick pick would have looked great a year ago.

    Anyhow, it appears the Cowboys got a minimum of three contributors to the team going forward with the possibility of Johnson starting next year if he can remain healthy.

    I think Hanna will be a stud in the league if they give him some burn.
  18. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    Giants may also very well be in decline because of that 4 year drought. Last I checked they didn't make the playoffs either this year.

    Better yet, take a look at the rosters for the turnaround teams of Seattle and SF. Up and down you find 3-5th rounders making significant contributions.
  19. HoosierCowboy

    HoosierCowboy Put Pearson in the HOF

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    that's like saying Alabama's recruiting class is a bust because only 2 freshmen had good years
  20. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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