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News: Mel Kiper: Beyond Morris Claiborne, Cowboys didn’t get much from 2012 draft

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    another fan of mediocrity
  2. Fletch

    Fletch To The Moon

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    Thought it was a three year process before grading out said draft class? Did I miss something or is it just more hate coming from Bristol? :rolleyes:
  3. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    If you have a 1st round pick (and I mean any 1st round pick ) and the player does not contribute heavily in year one, barring serious injury, it would be very disappointing.

    I'd say last season, barring injuries, 31 out of 32 1st rounders contibuted fairly well. Most of them played very big roles.

    The only 1st round "flop" so far has been 30th pick--San Francisco WR AJ Jenkins. That's really it.

    Looking at the 2nd round....it looks like almost all of those guys played key roles or even started for their teams too.

    I bet after 2-3 year maybe as many as 60 players selected in Rds 1 and 2 will be contributing heavily for their teams.

    Yes, you should expect big contributions after a year or two from your 1st two picks.
  4. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Yes. All teams that don't spend 16mm per year on a set of guards are "fans of mediocrity."

    You do know that if you have a great guard they are very likely to be standing around looking for someone to block while the defense attacks the weak link.

    I would rather have an offensive line made up of a first round left tackle and four third or fourth round picks.
  5. mmillman

    mmillman Well-Known Member

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    He is right.

    For that draft to be considered good. Claiborne needs to be all pro with a couple more contributors.
  6. ravidubey

    ravidubey Active Member

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    Those guys got hurt from an accumulation of wear on their bodies, not fluke injuries.

    That accumulation is made worse by having to fend off extra OL and other blockers than they would with bigger and more capable bodies protecting them.
  7. LynnFoster

    LynnFoster Member

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    I see, so "the norm" is 8 players out of the 253 draft picks last year but I'm in left field. When 3 of the players you are listing are the top tier picks that I said would contribute (Jenkins would have been if he wasn't a head case).

    OK, now I'm convinced!
  8. LynnFoster

    LynnFoster Member

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    My point is that Kiper every year picks players to step in as adequate starters from the draft, often guys taken after the 1st round. And it very rarely happens that way, even players taken in the first round will get playing time but not be a solid starter that establishes himself in the position from day one. Guys taken early like Claiborne or Tyron Smith will hold their own but not dominante in their first year. Most of the other draft picks will contribute but not be a lock down starter - yet every year Kiper acts like a team has to take a 3rd round pick to fill a starting spot and invariably that pick gets some playing time but doesn't start.

    I do think the most likely draft strategy this year is an OG or C in the first round and that player will start for the Cowboys next year. But in the 3rd round Kiper will make say something like the Cowboys have to take a certain safety or they are idiots - and if the Cowboys do that Safety won't start over Church or Sensebaugh.
  9. ravidubey

    ravidubey Active Member

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    I think he's gotten turned around trying to make the point that you shouldn't rely on draft picks to address immediate needs because you may pass on better talent in the process and the player might not even be ready to contribute right away leaving the need still open.

    Personally I believe players taken in first couple of rounds can indeed address immediate needs, but it's usually better to go with an average free agent to meet the immediate need and let the draft stay true to the available talent.
  10. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    That is just not true. They may be worn down or play worse in week 10 because of it but that is not what happened to those players this year. Carter's elbow being bent back on the sideline has nothing to do with the accumulation of wear and tear on other hits.
  11. cowboys1981

    cowboys1981 Well-Known Member

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    How so? You can't judge a draft after one season
  12. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    I would agree with that. But to say something like only top 10 overall picks make any impact the first year is outlandish. Rookies play more now than ever before.
  13. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    No, the front seven was NOT the weakness of the Cowboys.

    Our pass defense was horrid.

    In 2011 we were terrible at defending WR's. In 2012, we improved defending the #1 and #2 WR's, but were terrible at covering TE's. This is all available on the FootballOutsiders.com Web site. Our safeties couldn't tackle either.

    There was nothing foolish about trying to upgrade the secondary. I think we may have spent too much on the corners and could have solved the problem with a couple of good safeties and a scheme that doesn't require great cover corners.

    We were so bad in the secondary that Carr had to play safety, something he hasn't done since high school. And then we couldn't play press coverage because we couldn't trust the safeties.

    If we don't upgrade the safety spot, we're dead in the water in 2013.







    YR
  14. Fletch

    Fletch To The Moon

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    So y'all are saying we need an upgrade? Hmmmm.
  15. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    A "C" grade was very kind for the Cowboys 2012 draft as it stands right now.

    Time will tell. Hopefully, Wilbur will show something. Claiborne and Crawford were average at best. Hanna showed a little something. Too bad Garrett didn't use him until the season was almost over.

    I expect the 2012 class to shine next year, though. If they can stay healthy...
  16. Vintage

    Vintage The Cult of Jib

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    If you are going to dock them for injuries, which is fair...

    Then you have to dock Tyron for a below average season, too.
  17. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Tyron didn't have a below average season. Especially when you consider he just turned 22 and was a 1st year starting LT.

    He got better as the year went on.
  18. jimmy40

    jimmy40 Well-Known Member

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    The Mel Kiper bias, that's a new one. congrats
  19. cowboys1981

    cowboys1981 Well-Known Member

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    I would say Crawford was average. Claiborne did a great job considering he was a rookie. He had one bad game to my knowledge but didn't see him get beat a lot outside of that. He will only get better and will be worth what we have up for him
  20. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    2005 sort of had 6 starters:

    Ware
    Spears
    Burnett (part-time player actually but went elsewhere to start and played well)
    Canty
    Barber
    Ratliff


    2003 sort of had 4 starters:

    TNew
    Al Johnson - starter a bit here and then elsewhere too.
    Witten
    Romo (UDFA)


    2010:

    Dez Bryant
    Sean Lee
    Sean Lissemore?
    Phil Costa - really played well last year and surprised. Ankle should be okay but still worry about his back.


    2011 projected:

    Tyron
    Bruce Carter
    Demarco Murray
    Dwayne Harris
    Bill Nagy? (starter as a rookie and then was in competition before stupidly being waived injured while Arkin still can't get on the field)?
    Kevin Kowalski? (still really like this kid, shame about his ankle, really liked what he showed on the field in 2011)

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