Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by supercowboy8, Jan 8, 2012.
But without the instincts maybe.
I agree. Ingram in my view is at least one of the valid options for the Cowboys. He is a very good player and could be a big help to this team.
As you pointed out Kirkpatrick and DeCastro also are 2 guys that would be great additions to this team.
we need SOMEONE that is a threat to get double digit sacks. Is any of these guys likely to do that?
Im a Gamecocks fan and Ingram is awesome. He can do anything he kind of reminds me of Randy White. He is just all out energy a leader and a ball hawk. Trust me if it was up to me I would draft him at 14 no question.
Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
One of the most consistent players in the SEC over the past few seasons has been Melvin Ingram. He finished his collegiate career with a superb game against Nebraska. Ingram recorded four tackles with 1.5 sacks and was a disruptive force at the line of scrimmage. To get the Bowl started, Ingram blasted quarterback Taylor Martinez on an option run for tackle for a loss. In the fourth quarter, the Cornhuskers signal caller dove to the ground to avoid a hit from Ingram. He showed his versatility by beating a guard with a speed-and-shed rush move to sack Martinez.
This year, Ingram totaled 48 tackles with 15 tackles for a loss and 10 sacks. In 2010, Ingram had nine sacks and 11 tackles for a loss for the Gamecocks. He is a rare athlete. The 6-foot-2, 276-pounder has natural pad level with sudden speed and agility. Ingram ran a fake punt for a 68-yard touchdown against Georgia earlier this season and returned a fumble for a touchdown against the Bulldogs. As a pass rusher, Ingram is a mismatch for offenses if he rushes from defensive tackle or end. Ingram could get consideration in the top 20 picks of the 2012 NFL Draft.
I don't think so. I don't think you'd be able to rush the passer and/or cover as well as he does without the instincts.
I watched a few more clips of the guy (which certainly is not a sufficient basis to judge him) but I am even more concerned because he seems to be noticeably slow off the ball. Maybe it is the defense and his job to make reads or something. But it bugs me nonetheless when we are talking about taking this guy top 15.
In those clips from one game, there is some to like what he shows, and there is some that gives me great concern.
If we are going to be taking a pass rusher at 14, I'd like it to be a guy with an elite ability to get off the ball. Wares, Freeney, etc are all great pass rushers because they explode at the snap.
Ingram looks like a guy who make plays and provides scheme versatility, but he doesn't blow me away as a pass rusher. In that regard, I wonder why he is an improvement over Spencer.
I think it is just the way he's told to play, as I mentioned earlier. I'd like to know one way or the other, for sure, before I'd want him at 14. But it looks to me like he is supposed rush or cover depending on the offense, and his initial hesitation is just him diagnosing the play before he rushes or covers.
I mean, that's the only way I could see someone being so noticeably slow off the snap. When he does decide to rush or cover, you see such an explosive first step that I find it hard to believe he would be so initially slow.
Ingram appears to play run-first, passrush-2nd in a lot of plays.
Look at :54 and :258 in that link. He looks really quick off the snap in those plays.
He looks like a perfect fit as a Stong-Side OLB in a 3-4. Having said that, I don't know about picking him at #14. Is he that much better than some other passrushers that would be available later?
In regards to quickness of the snap, Bruce Irvin is a incredible in that area.
Check out 2:38 and 4:02 in this clip.
The issue with Irvin is that he is not really a fit at SOLB. Ware would need to play SOLB and let Irvin play WOLB. A lot of projections currently have in the mid 2nd round. That will probably change after the combine.
how would you rate Vinny Curry relative to these guys (Ingram, Hightower, and Irvin) since he might be available even in the 3rd round
long term might he be right up there?
I still see a problem with 1st down pass rush no matter who's playing the strong-side OLBer position, because this guy isn't pass rushing.
You're either getting just the front 3 or the front 3 plus Ware.
And when you have one starting DE getting 1 sack and the NT getting 2 for the entire season... Well I think the pass rush issues go deeper than Spencer only getting 6 sacks on the season.
I agree with this but looking at the 3-4 DEs at 14 then you are reaching big time. Derek Wolfe is pretty much the only one I like right now to draft early and that would be mid-late 2nd or maybe early 3rd but I think he will rise up boards.
So because there isn't a Watt in the draft what should you do reach for a 3-4 DE and hope he can be a great pass rusher. No you move to other positions.
I would love to get Campbell in FA but i doubt that will happen.
Red Bryant would be a smart signing. He plays DE in a 4-3 now in Seattle, so I think he can make the move to 3-4 DE.
I haven't done a whole lot of considering who will be what in the draft, but I am a huge Ingram fan. The guy has shown the ability to just dominate games. He was a one man wrecking crew against Auburn.
Yes, love Red Bryant. Dude is a freak with his size and strength.
if he can play DE in a 4-3 at his size what can he do as a 3-4 DE. I would love a guy that is 6-4 320 pounds and can get into the backfield.
I don't see where this guy fits in a 3-4. He'd have to play OLB in our scheme, and I don't think he's got the burst to be an outside pass rusher and it seems like he did quite a bit of damage rushing from the DT position at SC.
He reminds me of Vernon Gholston for some reason. Not saying he's going to be a total bust, but I don't see him having the same success in the NFL as he had in college.
He honestly reminds me of a poormans Ngata. That is probably a bit of an exaggeration but that's what came to mind the 3 or 4 games I watched him in this year. He's a force on the line and surprisingly quick for such a big guy. I think he could play both NT and DE in our scheme.
Ngata has 60 lbs. on Ingram
I don't see this burst problem people keep talking about. I guess he could be faster but I think he still has great speed to get around the corner.
He reminds me alot of Terrell Suggs.
But other than Ingram Upshaw, Hightower, and Irvin is our only options if we don't bring Spencer back.
I'm not going to trust a 2nd round or 3rd round OLB to start day one.
I think he was talking about Red Bryant