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Melvin Ingram is a beast

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by supercowboy8, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on all points . You have the same take on the depth of the of the guard position in this draft as I do .
  2. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    Just depends but I think Zeitler will be there in the 3rd.

    Look at last years draft. Moffit and Rackley both starters went in the 3rd and this draft class at OG is better than it was last year. Much deeper.

    as of right now 3rd round OGs, some might fall and some might rise in to round 2.
    Kevin Zeitler
    Amini Silatolu
    Senio Kelemete
    Joe Looney
    Lucas Nix
    Brandon Mosley
    Andrew Datko

    I think will rise into the 3rd are
    Antonio McClain
    Rishaw Jackson
    Don Barclay

    I will agree with you that DeCastro is far and away better but this teams defense must be rebuilt and so must the OL, I know. IF DeCastro is there and top player on our board then I'm fine with the pcik, but its going to be hard to find a day one starting CB and SOLB in round 2 and 3.
  3. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    you think Curry, McClellin, Branch, Irvin, and Lindsey can come in and start at SOLB day one.
    wow that amazes me, if those guys were day one starters then they would go in round 1 or early round 2. day one starting DEs and OLBs don't go 3rd round very often, you have a far better chance at getting a OG to start day one in round 2 or 3.
  4. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    I don't see Spencer getting 7 mil a season.
  5. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    then you need to look at what OLBs in a 3-4 gets paid.

    Calvin Pace got 6 year 42 million, that is 7 a year coming off a year where he got only 6.5 sacks
    so yes Spencers agent will want atleast that.
  6. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Oh no question his agent will ask for the moon.

    Now if he gets it is another thing. :)

    I don't know what the impression is of Spencer from around the league.
  7. rooler

    rooler Benched

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    Spencer has been hot and cold this year. He'll be a free agent in March. I doubt Dallas will want to pay him the money he's looking for.

    I just as soon draft any of theses guys

    Dont'a Hightower, ILB, Alabama
    Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
    Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC
  8. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    The trouble is you're not going to gain any great game day advantage by drafting one of those guys to replace Spencer.

    I'd rather overpay Spencer a little, keep him and focus on positions that were very substandard in 2011... Namely corner and guard. DeCastro or one of the top 3 corners would be an instant improvement over what we had in 2011. I don't think any of these guys would be an instant improvement over Spencer, once you figure in the three responsibilities of Spencer's position, namely pass-rush, coverage and run defense.
  9. rooler

    rooler Benched

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    yup your senario is good but I don't see it happening
  10. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    My point was that those guys are better than the guards that will be available in round 3. Will they be immediate starters? Maybe not. But day 1 contributors is a lot more likely. I've been an advocate of resigning Spencer and drafting a guy to be a situational pass rusher on obvious passing downs. Letting Spencer go and drafting any OLB in the 1st round isn't going to get this team any further.
  11. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    my point is no they aren't. How many OLB in the 3-4 do you see starting day one as a rookie drafted in the 3rd. Give me a list please. But I can give you a good list og OGs that were drafted in the 3rd that started day one.

    If we resign Spencer then no way do we spend a top 3 round pick on a OLB, you don't do that to a position where you just signed a guy long term and big money.

    Ingram is far and away better than any of those guys you mentioned.
    Ingram is so athletic and powerful I don't understand after all the hate people put on SPencer these past years, now no one wants to replace him or think a 3rd round pick can do it day one. Is this a joke.

    We have four major holes to fill this offseason.
    SOLB, CB, OG and Center, we need day one starters at all those spots.
    If your going to do so via the draft then you have to play the odds.
    Odds of getting a day one starting OLB past the first is slim past the 2nd is very slim.
    Odds of getting a day one startng CB past the first is very slim, getting one past the 2nd is almost non existence.
    Getting a day one starting OG or Center past he first is pretty goo dodds, getting one past the 2nd still very good odds, getting one past the 3rd your odds go down but still not as bad as CB or OLB.
  12. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    I guess I don't see Ingram or any of these other OLBers being head & shoulders above Spencer at this point.

    Keep Spencer... If the contract demands are realistic.
  13. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    and if the contract demands aren't then what do you do, what is releastic for you. For me anything over 4.5 a year is to much. You also have to look at other FAs you can sign with that money. Do you want Carl Nicks, a CB, ILB, FS, or any player for the DL. If you sign Spencer most liekly it won't be for 4.5 a year and will be closer to 7 a year.

    I think Ingram is a beast that can do anything. He will drop about 10 pounds and get ready for the combine and blow it away. They guy can blitz up the middle, around the edge, hold his goruond vs the run and drop back into coverage with ease. The guy is smart, a leader, and a team captain all things Garrett likes in a player.
    Also he can line up at DE, DT, and OLB which gives Ryan a player with versitilty which he likes in a player.
  14. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    Just to name a few that came to mind without doing a ton of research....
    James Harrison- Undrafted
    Lamarr Woodley- 2nd round #46
    Cameron Wake- undrafted
    Shaun Phillips- Round 4 #98
    Joey Porter- 3rd round #73
    Ahmad Brooks- 3rd round supplemental

    Either way this logic is completely flawed. Just because there were previously guards who were drafted in the 3rd round that did well doesnt mean we should just wait until the 3rd round to draft 1. That logic will run your franchise into the ground quickly.
  15. Woods

    Woods Active Member

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    If Spencer isn't re-signed for whatever reason, I think we almost have to go OLB in Round 1.

    Unless there is someone else RR really covets in FA. But otherwise, we're pretty much forced to draft an OLB really high.
  16. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    The quickest way to get a bust is to feel that you are forced into picking one certain player or position . The history of the draft process has proved this time and time again .
  17. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    none were starters day one, none. I said give me a list of OLBs that were starters day one. We don't have time to let a guy develop, who will play until that guy is ready.
  18. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Which would incredibly suck in my opinion.

    You end up with the same team as last year with your two weakest positions, G and CB still flawed.
  19. supercowboy8

    supercowboy8 Well-Known Member

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    James Harrison- was released two times and put on practice squad. brought back and then became a sstarter in 2007, 3 years after he was picked up be Pitt.
    Lamarr Woodley- 2nd round #46; wasn't a starter till year 2
    Cameron Wake- undrafted, was in canada football league before coming to miami
    Shaun Phillips- Round 4 #98; drafted in 2004 but wasnt a full time starter till 2006 but played alot in 2005, was only a pass rusher his rookie year
    Joey Porter- 3rd round #73 was a full time starter till his 2nd year
    Ahmad Brooks- 3rd round supplemental played 11 games his rookie year never started and only played in 2 his 2nd year then released and went to san fran.

    give me a list of guys that start day one drafted in the 3rd round or later please
  20. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    Why? Whether you want to admit it or not Spencer is still a productive player. And we still have the option to bring him back. Plus I'd much rather start Victor Butler next year than run Newman out there everyday or have Nagy/Holland/whatever garbage we threw out at guard this year. Personally I think youre overvaluing our need for an OLB, but I guess we'll agree to disagree because I dont feel like continuing this argument.

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