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Merril Hoge Says Joe Flacco Is The Best NFL QB W/O a Question

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by WPBCowboysFan, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. WPBCowboysFan

    WPBCowboysFan Well-Known Member

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  2. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    Wow, even better than Eli?
  3. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

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    Hoge, Deion, Shannon Sharpe and some others can all float away to an island and have their fantasy land NFL show that no one ever sees for all I care. Just idiots. Merrill, your tie knots are getting bigger by the day.

    I think Flacco was awesome and he took a large step up. If he was saying that Flacco belongs there to end the season...fine. But an outright.."best in NFL" is just plain dumb.
  4. CashMan

    CashMan Well-Known Member

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    Hodge works for ESPN, and this is what they want their guys to do, because you are talking about him. As for Deion, I just think he is an idiot.
  5. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    Well, he's a winner. The questions are what makes him one. As far as raw talent goes he's not in the top tier. But it's not raw talent that makes a QB able to direct teams to wins.

    Complicated subject with a large number of variables to consider.

    If Romo and he were on the same team which one would get the most out of the talent around him?
  6. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I'll give Flacco this: he played better than any other QB for three games in this year's playoffs.
  7. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Flacco does not do as well in the season. Which makes him less than elite and certainly NOT the best in the NFL.
  8. panchucko

    panchucko I'm too excited to sleep.. Zone Supporter

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    Is this the one where Hassellbeck busted him out for having RGIII in the top 10. He was saying that RG can't even walk, and you have him in your top ten. He goes on about he is that good. What a joke.
  9. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Haven't you used the exact opposite of this against other players and/or teams?

    What's your standard, burm? Undefeated for eternity?
  10. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    now don't get your panties in a wad hoof

    UNtill Flacco can smoke at least comparibly in the regular season he is not elite.
  11. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I didn't see it but I'd take guys like Hasselbeck and Dilfer's opinion 10x over Hodge--especially regarding QBs. He has no business even giving an opinion compared to those guys.
  12. CowboysYanksLakers

    CowboysYanksLakers Well-Known Member

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    Flacco played out of his mind.... He's legit.
  13. SkinsandTerps

    SkinsandTerps Redskins Forever

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    Flacco is a top 5 QB for sure. Best...ehh...

    I am not sure I would take him over Brady, P. Manning, Brees, or Rodgers.

    Top 5 though.
  14. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    And nobody should take him over those QBs.

    Those guys carry their teams regularly. They are the driving force behind those teams year in and year out. They don't do it all by themselves or every single week but for a majority of the time, they are the team.

    Flacco's numbers don't compare to the guys above. Yards, Completion Percentage, TDs......all pretty much mid-to-late teens in terms of league rank.

    The one thing he does do well that is probably the most impressive is protect the football. Averages about 11 INTs per season which is good, especially for a guy who started straight out of the gate as a rookie.

    Being you said Top 5 I'm guessing you are saying he's right behind those guys and to that, I'm not so sure.

    Matt Ryan has done more than Flacco and they came out in the same draft.

    Ruthlessraper is ahead of him, IMO.

    Production-wise, Matt Schaub is right there with Flacco even having missed a good number of games.

    • Flacco's Career: 1507/2489 (60.5%), 17,633 Yards, 102 TDs, 56 INTs
    • Schaub (Same Span): 1540/2373 (65.9%), 18,670 Yards, 105 TDs, 55 INTs

    Schaub has played in 12 less games.

    And I'll say it right now, if RG3 and Wilson repeat their rookie performances, I'd move them ahead of Flacco too if Flacco turns in another season like he has for the first 5 years of his career.

    Flacco deserves tons of praise for his playoff performance, no doubt. He stepped up big time but that doesn't move him above everyone that was in front of him all the way to the Top. Not even Top 5. I'd rank him behind Ryan and Pig Pen after seeing his SB run. Big Ben has the trophies as well and his numbers are right there with Flacco's in the past 5 years while missing games.

    Matt Ryan has simply outplayed Flacco, no two ways around it. I would concede Schaub even though Schaub has basically done what Flacco has but the playoff performance warrants that.

    And when you consider the supporting cast that Flacco has had, it's hard to argue that he's ever been relied upon to be the man on that team with any sort of regularity. In 4 of the 5 seasons he has played the Ravens defense has ranked #3 overall in points allowed. Every year but this year and they were 12th this year. He's never been asked to do much because the defense is shutting people down. Not to mention he has the support of a good running game every year.

    He really stepped it up but before this postseason run, he was pretty average in a lot of ways, starting with his sub-60 completion percentage for the last two seasons and a 60.5% completion percentage for his career.
  15. egn22

    egn22 Active Member

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    wow, he sounds like nothing more than a fanboy. How do you maintain credibility as a professional analyst when you say stuff like this.
    I like Flacco a lot. I think what he did this year was tremendous. But best in the league????? are you serious????

    You're a playoff caliber team and your guy just went down in the off season and you have a ton of cap space and there are a few free agent QB's available (this is hypothetical so bear with me).
    Your choices are:
    Joe Flacco
    Tom Brady
    Peyton Manning
    Aaron Rodgers
    Drew Brees

    Who in their right mind is taking Flacco????
  16. Stryker44

    Stryker44 Active Member

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    Most clutch this year in the playoffs? Yes.

    Eli was most clutch last year though...and most people would laugh if he was mentioned as the best QB in the NFL.
  17. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    ^ This ^
  18. SkinsandTerps

    SkinsandTerps Redskins Forever

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    Hoofbite, Flacco does not have to carry his team usually. They have a decent defense when healthy, they have a solid rush attack. They don't commit a ton of penalties, they don't turn the ball over in the high range.

    The guy can handle the stage and performs when he has to.
    It's not always about the numbers unless we are talking turnovers. He protects the ball. Making good decisions with it. Sometimes it is better to throw it away than force it.

    I would not take either of the Matt's, or Ben over him.

    The Matt's can't do it, and Ben has not done it without a running game.

    I think overall we agree. I just don't see the Matt's as more than stat stuffers, or Ben as more than fortunate.
  19. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    That is HIGHLY debatable.

    But these ranking always are, so have at it.

    Many people would not have had Flacco in their top 15 going into the playoffs. He had a fabulous 3 game run where he rarely played under serious defensive pressure, and now he jumps all the way to the top 5?

    Great job by Joe, but I'd prefer to see more. Could happen too.
  20. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly my point and is basically the definition of a "Bus Driver" QB.

    Prior to this postseason that's what he was.

    He handled the stage this year and stepped up for sure. I'm not trying to downplay his performance. It was outstanding but I don't think a single good postseason puts someone in the Top 5. It surely doesn't put anyone as "The Best" as Merril says.

    Flacco's playoff record prior to this year was 5-4 which is commendable.

    In those 5 wins is a pretty ridiculous stat. Opposing offenses only combined for 53 total points. That's less than 11 points per game.

    I kid you not, and because I didn't believe it myself I had to look it up to see if he got hurt, but he has won a playoff game with 4 completions for 34 yards and a QB Rating of 10.0

    I honestly don't know how I can't remember that. It was in 2009 so it's likely I was too focused on Dallas at the time after they clobbered the Eagles for it to really sink in.

    [IMG]


    Flacco's stats in those 5 wins:
    • 63/116 (54.3%), 771 Yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT

    And if holding the opponents to less than 11 points isn't enough on behalf of the Ravens' defense, they've literally had like 4 takeaways in each of those games and excellent rushing numbers for 3 of those games as well.

    • Tennessee: 3 Takeawas, 50 Rushing Yards
    • Houston: 4 Takeaways, 87 Rushing Yards
    • Miami: 5 Takeaways, 151 Rushing Yards
    • Kansas City: 5 Takeaways, 142 Rushing Yards
    • New England: 4 Takeaways, 242 Rushing Yards

    I'm quite certain there's isn't a QB in the NFL who couldn't win with that.

    Just a quick look at his 4 losses prior to this postseason:

    Pittsburgh, Lost 14-23: 13/30 (43.3%), 141 Yards, 0 TDs, 3 INTs
    Indianapolis, Lost 3-20: 20/35 (57.1%), 189 Yaards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs
    Pittsburgh, Lost 24-31: 16/30 (53.3%) 125 Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
    New England, Lost 20-23: 22/36 (61.1%) 306 Yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT

    1 game of good play. Last year's playoff game against NE. People like to say that Lee Evans was the reason the Ravens weren't in the Superbowl (and I agree) in trying to make a case for Flacco but on the flip-side, if Raheem Moore doesn't start celebrating a victory before the game is over, Flacco's season ends in Denver this year. It goes both ways.

    Taking the lot of those 9 games, Flacco was pretty inconsequential in victory and largely responsible for losses (NE excluded). Basically, "we don't need you to win the game for us, we just need you to make sure that you don't lose it".

    That's how Flacco was able to be 3-1 through his first 4 postseason games while completing 43.5% of his passes, throwing for a combined 471 Yards with 1 TD and 4 INTs.

    Little different than how the Bears approached Rex Grossman. Only difference, Rex didn't get red hot and have a postseason for the history books, and thus, become a Top 5 QB after having won the Superbowl. I'm not saying Flacco isn't better than Rex, he certainly is. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to look at two guys who were basically inconsequential to their teams success and largely responsible for their teams failures and then conclude that one guy is Top 5 because of a single stretch of games, no matter how good they were.

    He stepped up this year and this year only. Was Mark Sanchez Top 5 after getting to the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row? He stepped up didn't he? Or does stepping up only occur when you win the Superbowl. Basically, only 1 guy steps up per year? That's a little disingenuous and kind of ignores the reality of just how hard it is to win a Superbowl.

    I'd take Ryan but not Schaub and that's only because of Flacco's playoff run this year. Without that run, those two are similar guys and if you can keep Schaub upright, he's the better QB.

    Matt Ryan is just flat out better.

    As for Ben, you're claim on him doesn't do you any favors. The Raven's just ran for 134 yards per game during their playoff run. That's better than the average for either of the Steeler's playoff runs in which they won the Superbowl. In 2008 the Steelers only had 3 playoff games but rushed for less than 60 in two of them. In 2005 their playoff stretch came up just short of the 2012 Ravens' playoff stretch.

    If performance with the complement of a running game drops a guy in your opinion, Flacco in the Top 5 is kind of an oddity considering Flacco has had the benefit of a good running game for nearly his entire career. Every year he has played, he has had the complement of a higher rushing total and YPC average than the 2008 Steelers did when they won the Superbowl.

    I would disagree with your assessment of Ryan. I think Ryan is a very good QB and if you put him and Flacco on teams that are dead even across the board in every other aspect Ryan would outperform him significantly. I'm not even a big fan of Schaub because I don't think he's all that great. I simply threw him into the discussion because his numbers are very comparable to Flacco's over the years.

    Which kind of brings the idea of padding stats to an interesting crossroads. If Flacco and Schaub are producing on the same level, and I'm talking very similar, yet one guy is winning more than the other, why is that guy winning more? After that, why is one guy a stat padder and the other isn't? Would Flacco have been a stat padder prior to the start of this year's postseason? Must have been one which means he's no longer a stat padder because his team came together at the right time, he got hot and started seeing things in binary code and it all worked out for him. People wouldn't even consider him close to the best, and I dare say, wouldn't consider him in the Top 5 if they had lost that Superbowl. Considering the difference in the game could be something like the uncalled Personal Foul on Crabtree that would have given the 49ers a fresh set of downs at the 4, I think catapulting a guy for something like good fortune is mislead.

    This isn't to take anything away from his performance. It likely won't be replicated by he or anyone else in the near future. Simply flawless.

    But, the idea that he is now some sort of top QB in the league is just ridiculous to me. Perhaps I have a problem with the narrow scope of the media in that they're so anxious to crown the next guy at the first sign of success. A guy who through 5 years would probably come in about average in all the major statistics but does protect the ball well is somehow better than 10 or so guys that rank in front of him in spite of those players doing nearly everything else better and not being able to rely on what amounts to a Top 3 defense every single year? I don't buy it.

    All it means is that the guy was in the zone for a brief period and it just happened to be at the right time. Far and away, 3 of his 4 best games of the year came in the playoffs. Flacco deserves praise for his stretch but until he starts making those monster games more frequently, he's got a lot of legwork to do in order to be at the top.

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