Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by GimmeTheBall!, Jun 23, 2014.
Literally made me laugh out loud. You sir, are correct.
Thank you you half a good eye for uniqueness. I am baking a cake and taking down the soccer decorations for the ghana team and making a Cowboys helmet shaped pillow with teh hep of Ms. Busty. You should come over and hang with us. Excuse the smell in FB, it goes away after the skinning yard end the 2nd shift and the wind shifts.
Erik Williams - They adapted a rule becaue he dominated Reggie White to the degree of embarrassment.
Larry Allen - You dont need to say anything.
Reggie White: What a guy. Mr. Religious.
The minister of defense (you can't make these things up) went on to be a wrestler for WWE, made a movie and his church burned down.
The movie he made "Reggie's Prayer" featured Pat Morita, (and I sware this be true) Mike Holmgreen and Brett Favre as janitors, Keith Jackson plays a assistant coach and R.C. Hammer plays a park ranger.
Man this is a movie to be viewed on a Saturday night with a bottle of 15% wine.
There would never have been a discussion around this (Vick) had Joe Gilliam not been involved with drugs.
Almost forgot about him. Yeah...he was a good one that fell off the cliff.
22 career rushes and 64 yards over 4 seasons.
When it comes to Vick we talking football or dog fighting?
Don't think he did much for either!
Yep, but did you ever actually watch him play?
Fran Tarkenton ran as well I guess he revolutionized the position since he could run and was a much better passer than Vick. Same goes for Steve Young. Vick is all hype but push come to shove he is not that good which is why he is without a starting job.
I've seen video of him. He wasn't a running QB. Good athlete, but he was a passer who was also mobile. Vick is a runner who can't pass.
I did not say they were the same player. I said if not for the drugs, Vick would not be talked about the way he now is. Don't kid yourself, Gilliam was a really talented guy.
I'm not kidding myself. Gilliam was talented(never said otherwise), but it wouldn't have shut some people up about Vick. Plus Gilliam wasn't the same type of runner. Randall Cunningham ran just as well as Vick and Cunningham was a much better passer than Vick. That doesn't stop people from talking about Vick. Nothing Gilliam could have possibly done would stop the Vick promoters, either.
Yeah, I think it would have to a great extent. Vick is almost worshiped by some. Had Gilliam been able to succeed, he would have been the first Black QB in the NFL to start and have real success. He could throw but he could also run and run well.
I don't think I agree about Cunningham though. Randall and Vick, IMO, were the same guy. Physically they were different but, if you look at the numbers:
Randall was a 56.6% career passer. TD% was 4.8, INT% was 3.1. He averaged 186.2 YPG. QBRT was 81.5. Rushing APG was 30.6 with a 6.4 YPC. TYPG Avg. was 216.8.
Vick is a 56.2% career passer. TD% is 4.2, INT% is 2.8. He averages 167.9 YPG. QBRT is 80.9. Rushing APG is 45.8 with a 7.1 YPC. TYPG Avg is 213.7.
Now, Randall played a lot longer, to this point, and his rushing numbers did decline so that affects things. If Vick continues to play, the same will probably happen so it could change but as of now, really similar players statistically, IMO.
I don't think they are similar. Cunningham was a much better passer than Vick. Cunningham started 135 games. Vick has started 109 games. I doubt Vick's game will change much if he gets 26 more starts.
Cunningham finished in the top 10 in passer rating 3 times in his career. Vick has only done that 1 time.
Cunningham finished in the top 10 in passing yards 5 times in his career. Vick has never done that.
Cunningham finished in the top 10 in passing TDs 6 times in his career. Vick has only done that 1 time.
Cunningham averaged over 200 passing yards a game for a season 8 times in his career. Vick has only done that 3 times.
Cunningham passed for over 3000 yards in a season 5 times in his career(3 times before age 27). Vick has only done that 2 times. Both past the age of 30.
Cunningham passed for over 2500 yards in a season 7 times in his career. Vick has only done that 3 times.
You also have to consider that Vick has played in a more passer friendly league. If Vick played at the same time Cunningham played his numbers would be even worse.
During Cunninghams playing days:
League average 56.8%
League average 6.3%
League average 4.0%
League average 3.5%
League average 74.4
During Vicks playing days:
League average 60.2%
League average 6.5%
League average 4.1%
League average 3.0%
League average 80.5
I think you have a point on how the league has changed but I don't think it necessarily favors Vick. It's true that the rules have gotten more favorable for passing offenses but on the other hand, a QB with the Athleticism of Cunningham was still a relatively new thing in those days. Defenses were not nearly as complex, nor were they as well coached as they are now, with regards to defending running QBs. You also have to take into consideration that the Defenses Cunningham played with in Philly were much better then what Vick has had in his career. That allows for more opportunities offensively. Lastly, Cunningham really only improved his passing after he left Philly. When Randall played, the league was not as balanced. The threat of a running QB made it much easier to pass the ball. Now, defenses are coached much better and the receivers, not left as open.
It's a relative thing but at the end of the day, if you put Vick on those Philly teams, I think he puts up equal or better numbers then did Randall. Randall was a horrible throwing QB when he came out of Nevada. Vick was much, much better then that. As I said, their numbers are almost identical.
In Cunningham's first year of 1985 the average passer rating was 70.69. In Vick's first year(Cunningham's last year) of 2001 the average passer rating was 76.56. Last year the average passer rating was 84.05. This new era favors Vick. It favors any and all QBs. It is just easier to produce stats for a QB.
OK, but you still have to account for the fact that Defenses weren't as good at defending mobile QBs as they are now. Yes, it's easier to pass now, I don't disagree, but that doesn't necessarily translate to Cunningham. It was much easier for him then your average QB because defenses didn't play the pass against a mobile QB near as well. Now you have every kid in the State of Texas growing up and playing against some form of the Run and Shoot. Seriously, Randall wasn't a very good passer early on. He either threw the dumpoff, the deep ball or ran it. Didn't read defenses very well either.
I've never thought of Mike Vick as one who 'revolutionized' football. I merely thought of him as one that was better than most as a running QB, but not as good in accuracy and reading defenses. He was indeed a good QB but revolutionary (?), I don't think so.
How did Vick revolutionize anything when good defenses have always shut him down with ease?
Philly and Tampa used to hold him to 80 yards passing and 30 rushing in the playoffs. The Falcons had zero chance against any team with a good defense.