Most of You Know the Story About The Redskins Fight Song...

Discussion in 'History Zone' started by Hostile, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. Joe Realist

    Joe Realist No Kool-Aid here!

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    unless it involves soccer at the new stadium. ;)
  2. Bob Sacamano

    Bob Sacamano Benched

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    Hos doesn't have that kind of power
  3. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    This is an interesting anecdote.

    An enduring logo: in the early 1970s, Walter "Blackie" Wetzel, president of the National Congress of American Indians and chairman of the Blackfoot Tribe, urged the Redskins to replace the "r" logo on their helmets with the head of an Indian chief. From photos he presented to the Redskins officials of Indian chiefs in full headdress, a composite was developed that gave birth to a new logo on Redskins helmets in the 1972 season. It exists to this day. I said "I'd like to see an Indian on your helmets," Wetzel remarked in the Washington Post on January 26, 2002. "It made us all so proud to have an Indian on a big team... it's only a small group of radicals who oppose those names. Indians are proud of Indians."
  4. FanSince61

    FanSince61 Thanks for the memories Dandy

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    Good stuff Hos, I had never heard about it.

    Somewhat off topic, but in the 1950s, Lamar Hunt approached the NFL on several occasions, seeking to buy a franchise for his hometown of Dallas, but he was repeatedly rebuffed. The Chicago Cardinals were reportedly for sale (with the intent of relocation), and one of the men who approached the Cardinals was Hunt. He offered to buy the Cardinals and move them to Dallas, Texas, where he had grown up. While Hunt negotiated with Cardinals ownership, similar offers were made by Bud Adams, Bob Howsam, and Max Winter. The Dallas Cardinals just does not sound right.

    When Hunt, Adams, and Howsam were each unable to secure a controlling interest in the Chicago Cardinals, they approached NFL commissioner Bert Bell and proposed the addition of expansion teams. Bell, wary of expanding the 12-team league and risking its newfound success, rejected the offer. On his return flight to Dallas, Hunt conceived the idea of an entirely new league and decided to contact the others who had shown interest in purchasing the Cardinals. A new league was formed called the American Football League.

    Do you know how much of a role G. P. Marshall played in blocking Hunt from
    getting a team in Dallas?

    Seems kind of ironic that the person wanting a NFL team in Dallas and being rejected through expansion and relocation, unknowingly played a part in getting an expansion team in Dallas by forming a new league.

    Even though Bert Bell rejected Hunt, in 1960 the NFL expanded to Dallas, the Chicago Cardinals moved to St. Louis and in 1961 expanded to Minnesota. All moves to fight the AFL.
  5. daschoo

    daschoo Slanje Va

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    forgive me for bringing up soccer but this point is just too resonating between the historical rivals of my teams in nfl and football. where the redskins had a no blacks policy rangers had a no catholics policy that was only broken in 1989. (there had by then been a couple of catholics but they were not openly catholic and were not high profile players. mo johnston was the first high profile catholic player they signed and that prompted people returning their season tickets and burning their scarves outside the stadium in protest) the point you make about it weakening their team is a parallel to one of my favourite quotes from the great jock stein who managed celtic during the most succesful spell in our history. when he was asked if their were two players who were similarly talented, one protestant and the other catholic, would their religion influence who he signed. for anyone who doesn't know the history of the club celtic are traditionaly supported by the catholic population of glasgow (though we have always been open to all) so it was a loaded question to try and insinuate that we were of the same mindset as rangers. jocks response was "of course, i'd sign the protestant because i know that theres no way rangers would sign the catholic"

    again sorry for bringing soccer into the thread but i just enjoyed and wanted to share the similarities between the open mindedness of my teams and the historical racism/bigotry of their rivals in the two sports i most enjoy.
  6. FanSince61

    FanSince61 Thanks for the memories Dandy

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    I was partial to the helmets with a feather in the back. It's the one they wore when I started going to games.


    upclose look

    BTW, that is the blue color of the original uniforms, not the dark blue they wear on Thanksgiving day, now
  7. adbutcher

    adbutcher K9NME

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    Very cool story. Thanks for the share.
  8. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    The information I am about to share with you is not very well known. The Cowboys were not the first professional football team in Dallas. The Dallas Texans were, but not the Lamar Hunt owned Texans. Back in 1952 the New York Yanks moved to Dallas and changed their name to the Texans.

    The 1952 version of the Texans drew tiny crowds to the Cotton Bowl. In Texas, college football was king. The Texans were lucky to draw 5000 fans to their games. Not even when legendary Texans like Bobby Layne and Doak Walker came to play did the crowds show up. The Texans though had one rabid fan. His name was Clint Murchison.

    He applied in 1952 to take over the Texans. Bert Bell and the NFL had to take over the Texans before the 1952 season ended. Instead of granting Murchison the team he gave it to Carroll Rosenbloom and they became the Baltimore Colts who started play in 1953.

    Having an NFL team that close to Washington, DC royally pissed off GP Marshall. He was very territorial. Territory is the main reason why he moved his team from Boston to DC. It gave him a wider area to control. He didn't have to share so much space with the Giants. He then focused on controlling the entire southern part of the US. I am often critical of Marshall, but the fact remains that he is the person most responsible for getting professional football on TV and increasing its popularity. He adopted elements of the college game like bands and fight songs to try and fire up the crowds.

    Clint Murchison then tried to buy the San Francisco 49ers and move them to Dallas. That deal fell through. Now hold your breath.

    In 1958 Clint had a deal in place to buy the Washington Redskins and move the team to Dallas. The deal included a clause where GP Marshall was going to run the team for 5 years. Just before the deal would be struck Marshall demanded he get to run the team for 10 years. Clint told him to go to hell.

    We came that close to having that racist running the Cowboys instead of Tex Schramm and rooting for the stinking Redskins.

    Clint then was told by Bert Bell to try and buy the Cardinals from the Bidwell family. That is when Lamar Hunt got in on the negotiations. He too was told to try and buy the Cardinals. The Bidwell family so frustrated Hunt that he started trying to build the AFL.

    Why would GP Marshall move the Redskins? Simple, he too saw the potential for football in Texas where it is rabid, and he knew he would not have to share an area with Baltimore. Like I said, he was very territorial. The price he and Clint agreed upon was reportedly $600,000. It was the control factor that ultimately pissed Clint off.

    So Hunt went off in a different direction to get his team. I honestly think Clint would have gone to the AFL too if they both had not been wanting a team for Dallas. Clint then had a real fight on his hands. He and Marshall were pretty much sworn enemies at that point. He also knew he was going to have to outwit Lamar Hunt who was wealthier than he was.

    Getting the NFL to expand was the issue. GP Marshall was wholly against it. 12 teams was the perfect number as far as he was concerned. 14 was too much. Clint barreled on and that is when he decided to simply beat Marshall at every turn.

    It started with him paying $2500 for the rights to the Redskins fight song. He then sought to have the anti-monopoly committee get involved. Marshall was hemmed in at every side and Clint held all the aces. The NFL agreed to add the Dallas Steers and the Minnesota Vikings. Both were slated to begin play in 1961, not 1960. However, because of Lamar Hunt's success in building the AFL Clint convinced the NFL owners that the Texans getting a 1 year head start was suicide.

    So Marshall had very little to do with blocking Hunt. That was really the Bidwells who frustrated him so badly. He tried to block Clint or to take the territory for himself, but Clint whipped him at every turn.

    I ended the original post saying the cost to start the Cowboys was $625,000. I was actually off by the $2500 Clint paid for the rights to the Redskins fight song. So it was actually $627,500. Of course there were a lot of other costs involved in negotiations, trips, etc.

    Aren't you glad you don't have to stare at that awful burgundy and yellow (it isn't gold Redskins fans) or have to explain why a racist ran your team? It came very close to happening.
  9. FanSince61

    FanSince61 Thanks for the memories Dandy

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    Thanks for the info. I knew about the 1952 Dallas Texans. I had not heard about Clint being involved in trying to get a team here, but found it strange that when the NFL decided to put a team here he got the franchise. All I ever read was how Lamar really wanted a team here. That clears up a clouded part of the history that I knew.

    The story reminds me of what could been. I never disliked Lamar and always respected him. But it's hard for me to imagine if he would have got a franchise from the NFL, would I now be a Dallas Texans (1960) fan or even worse a Cardinals fan. :laugh2: Can't imagine no Cowboys.

    I guess I need to thank the Bidwells for not selling them.

    Glad things turned out the way the did.

    On a side note I read where the Minnesota franchise was a charter member of the AFL, but jumped to the NFL before the AFL started playing.
  10. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    100% correct.

    I think Bert Bell favored Clint over Lamar Hunt because he doggedly kept trying to get a team. Just my opinion. I have nothing to base it upon that can be claimed as fact.
  11. DCBoysfan

    DCBoysfan Hardwork and Dedication

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    I learn something new everyday, thanks for the info, Hos.
  12. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Great stuff, Hos.
  13. DallasFanSince86

    DallasFanSince86 Pessimism Sucks

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    Thanks for the information, Hos. Very interesting.
  14. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    I thought about adding the stuff about the 49ers, Cardinals and Redskins to the original post of the thread but thought it might make it way too long. Hope no one minded a 2nd post about the info.
  15. Kobal

    Kobal Member

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    Great stuffs. Thanks for sharing. :bow:
  16. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    Something I should mention, Clint Murchison was up against the clock badly to get a team on the field in 1960. He had no staff, no coach, no players. George Halas advised him to hire Tex Schramm who had been let go by the Los Angeles Rams. Schramm immediately hired Tom Landry. In the middle of trying to do this Bert Bell stepped down as the NFL Commissioner. The Cowboys missed out on the 1960 NFL Draft, the only expansion team ever to be formed without a Draft as their building block.
  17. jubal

    jubal Active Member

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    My thoughts perzacly.
  18. MadCow

    MadCow Member

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    This information is absolutely great! Thanks for sharing.
  19. BehindEnemyLinez

    BehindEnemyLinez Optimist Prime

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    It's amazing how many ties there are to the Cowboys/Redskins rivalry! There are SO many reasons not to like the Deadskins that I had no knowledge of when I "chose" my allegiance some 30 years ago (actually, Dallas seemed to choose me, if that makes sense)! Reading these nuggets of info from Hos just makes me dislike them that much more...:suxskins:
  20. sonnyboy

    sonnyboy Benched

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    I was discussing this topic with someone recently and something else significant came to mind.

    From a competitive angle, no expansion team ever had more strikes against it.

    When they started in 1960, they were competing against one other expansion team who did get to draft and 12 other established NFL teams.

    Those 12 teams had the benefit of constructing their rosters over the previous 5-10 years from a relatively large talent pool since there was no competing league in the 1950's.

    Now here come the Cowboys in 1960 along with the Vikings and 8 other new teams in the AFL.

    In one year,the number of pro teams competing for talent jumped from 12 to 22!

    The Cowboys get no draft and have to compete against 9 other expansion teams for street FA's.

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