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Nancy Pelosi was an accomplice to 'torture.'

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by JBond, May 14, 2009.

  1. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    Nancy Pelosi was an accomplice to 'torture.'

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124226863721018193.html

    Someone important appears not to be telling the truth about her knowledge of the CIA's use of enhanced interrogation techniques (EITs). That someone is Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. The political persecution of Bush administration officials she has been pushing may now ensnare her.

    Here's what we know. On Sept. 4, 2002, less than a year after 9/11, the CIA briefed Rep. Porter Goss, then House Intelligence Committee chairman, and Mrs. Pelosi, then the committee's ranking Democrat, on EITs including waterboarding. They were the first members of Congress to be informed.

    In December 2007, Mrs. Pelosi admitted that she attended the briefing, but she wouldn't comment for the record about precisely what she was told. At the time the Washington Post spoke with a "congressional source familiar with Pelosi's position on the matter" and summarized that person's comments this way: "The source said Pelosi recalls that techniques described by the CIA were still in the planning stage -- they had been designed and cleared with agency lawyers but not yet put in practice -- and acknowledged that Pelosi did not raise objections at the time."

    When questions were raised last month about these statements, Mrs. Pelosi insisted at a news conference that "We were not -- I repeat -- were not told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used." Mrs. Pelosi also claimed that the CIA "did not tell us they were using that, flat out. And any, any contention to the contrary is simply not true." She had earlier said on TV, "I can say flat-out, they never told us that these enhanced interrogations were being used."

    The Obama administration's CIA director, Leon Panetta, and Mr. Goss have both disputed Mrs. Pelosi's account.

    In a report to Congress on May 5, Mr. Panetta described the CIA's 2002 meeting with Mrs. Pelosi as "Briefing on EITs including use of EITs on Abu Zubaydah, background on [legal] authorities, and a description of the particular EITs that had been employed." Note the past tense -- "had been employed."

    Mr. Goss says he and Mrs. Pelosi were told at the 2002 briefing about the use of the EITs and "on a bipartisan basis, we asked if the CIA needed more support from Congress to carry out its mission." He is backed by CIA sources who say Mr. Goss and Mrs. Pelosi "questioned whether we were doing enough" to extract information.

    We also know that Michael Sheehy, then Mrs. Pelosi's top aide on the Intelligence Committee and later her national security adviser, not only attended the September 2002 meeting but was also briefed by the CIA on EITs on Feb. 5, 2003, and told about a videotape of Zubaydah being waterboarded. Mr. Sheehy was almost certain to have told Mrs. Pelosi. He has not commented publicly about the 2002 or the 2003 meetings.

    So is the speaker of the House lying about what she knew and when? And, if so, what will Democrats do about it?

    If Mrs. Pelosi considers the enhanced interrogation techniques to be torture, didn't she have a responsibility to complain at the time, introduce legislation to end the practices, or attempt to deny funding for the CIA's use of them? If she knew what was going on and did nothing, does that make her an accessory to a crime of torture, as many Democrats are calling enhanced interrogation?

    Senate Judiciary Chairman Pat Leahy wants an independent investigation of Bush administration officials. House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers feels the Justice Department should investigate and prosecute anyone who violated laws against committing torture. Are these and other similarly minded Democrats willing to have Mrs. Pelosi thrown into their stew of torture conspirators as an accomplice?

    It is clear that after the 9/11 attacks Mrs. Pelosi was briefed on enhanced interrogation techniques and the valuable information they produced. She not only agreed with what was being done, she apparently pressed the CIA to do more.

    But when political winds shifted, Mrs. Pelosi seems to have decided to use enhanced interrogation as an issue to attack Republicans. It is disgraceful that Democrats who discovered their outrage years after the fact are now braying for disbarment of the government lawyers who justified EITs and the prosecution of Bush administration officials who authorized them. Mrs. Pelosi is hip-deep in dangerous waters, and they are rapidly rising.
  2. Phrozen Phil

    Phrozen Phil Active Member

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    As soon as I saw who wrote the article, I laughed. Talk about self serving. Rove has a teeny bit of a credibility gap.:rolleyes:
  3. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    No doubt and I have heard she played a big role. After showing nude pictures of herself to Terrorist they all were willing to talk and even under go water boarding if the interrogators would only put the pictures away. :laugh2:
  4. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    So you can dispute the facts in the article? Please do. I would love to hear it. Or are you just going to do a drive by roll the eyes deal instead of addressing Pelosi's lies?
  5. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Rove is self serving without a doubt, he does have credibility issues and I will go one step further and say he is trying to deflect blame.

    HOWEVER....he is right, she is guilty like the rest in this.

    Now the funny thing I see with the republicans vs democrats on this torture issue is the following...

    If the dems say it is wrong, and it is, and the repubs say it is not wrong...then why are the repubs also blaming the other side if it is not wrong.

    I think we all know the answer to that question. But that does not take away from the fact that she has her share of the blame in this situation.
  6. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure they are "blaming" the dems. They are just letting it be known Pelosi lied about her knowledge of enhanced techniques. I do not understand the blame angle you are taking.

    I understand you are against enhanced techniques but they did save lives. What if it was your family that was saved, or if Obama was president murdered, would you feel any differently?
  7. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    What if pigs flew out of my butt, would you eat the pork chops from them?

    Sorry...that is some wise crack I say to people sometimes when they play the what if game.:laugh2:

    I guess I am a man of responsibility and do not try to hide or deflect blame.

    In your what if scenario I would know it was illegal, do it anyways and then face the consequences of my actions afterward...not try to act like it is not torture, try to deflect blame or practice personal responsibility.

    What these cats want to do is have their cake and eat it too.

    They want to take a history of the US defining waterboard as torture, change it by canoodling some legal memos to make it ok but then deny that it is torture and definitely not man up and take responsibility for doing something we prosecuted others for doing.

    You want to do it...fine, man up and admit it and take your punishment for doing it...but they don't want to do that.
  8. trickblue

    trickblue Old Testament... Zone Supporter

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    I don't think the Repubs ARE saying it's wrong...

    I think they are saying for the Dems to categorize it however they want, but be it known they were involved as well. "If I was involved with torture, then so were you"...

    Chuckie Schumer has no problem with torture privately, he's just attempting to demonize the opposition for political gain... same with Nancy...
  9. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    I know what they are doing, they are exposing the hypocrisy of the other side on this issue but by doing that they are exposing their own.

    It is pretty funny that while slamming others they are slamming themselves just like the dems are doing over this issue.
  10. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    Here is the problem I have with Pelosi especially. She knew the entire time and made a conscious decision to lie about it and attack the other side when she privately condoned the actions taking place. It is pure political bs at it's worse.

    I have issues like you do about water boarding because anything a previous administration has done becomes justification for another administration to do it. But the question becomes the who, what, why and where are they doing it and that is open to whatever the current administration interpretation is. Lincoln suspended many rights of Americans in times of great upheaval and danger. His army tortured, raped and pillaged fellow Americans yet he is revered in history. Would our country be different today if the south had won the war? Of course it would. Was Lincoln justified? Many say he was. It all depends on your perspective, I guess.
  11. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    she contributes to torture every time i have to see her picture anywhere, that's for sure.
  12. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Because the Dems are calling for a cherry picked investigation, like the dog and pony show of yesterday. Dems bring in the wittness that agrees with their side and bring no counter views to the table.
  13. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    And both sides are exposing their hypocrisy on this issue.

    :laugh2:
  14. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    I get confused easily. What exactly have the Republicans done that was hypocritical in this particular situation. They said they water boarded and used other enhanced techniques that got results. They are not denying it. The Dems on the other hand lied about even knowing it was going on. I don't get it.
  15. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Because the Republicans said they did not torture, the dems said they did, now they are saying well if we did the dems knew about it...so either they never tortured anyone or they did.

    No not enhanced techniques...torture.
  16. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Pelosi: Bush team misled her on waterboarding

    Speaker of the House says she learned of waterboarding in 2003


    WASHINGTON - Under strong attack from Republicans, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused the CIA and Bush administration of misleading her about waterboarding detainees in the war on terror and sharply rebutted claims she was complicit in the method's use.

    "To the contrary ... we were told explicitly that waterboarding was not being used," she told reporters, referring to a formal CIA briefing she received in the fall of 2002.

    Pelosi said she subsequently learned that other lawmakers were told several months later by the CIA about the use of waterboarding.

    "I wasn't briefed, I was informed that somebody else had been briefed about it," she said.

    The House's top Democrat made her comments at a news conference where she was peppered with questions about her knowledge of a technique she and others have called torture. Republicans have insisted in recent weeks that Pelosi and other Democrats knew waterboarding was in use but made no attempt to protest.

    Pelosi's comments Thursday were her most pointed yet on the topic of what she learned about waterboarding.

    CIA's view

    In a written response issued moments after Pelosi spoke, an official at the CIA neither disputed nor accepted the California Democrat's statements.

    Instead, George Little, head of the CIA office of public affairs, said it would be up to Congress to determine whether notes made by agency personnel at the time they briefed lawmakers were accurate. He said the notes could be made available at the CIA "for staff review."

    House Republican Leader John Boehner dismissed Pelosi's account.

    "When you look at the number of briefings that the Speaker was in and other Democrat members of the House and Senate, it's pretty clear that they were well aware of what these enhanced interrogation techniques were," said the Ohio lawmaker. "They were well aware that they had been used, and it seems to me that they want to have it both ways. You can't have it both ways."

    Despite Boehner's comments, CIA records show Pelosi attended only one briefing — the one in the fall of 2002 where she says she was told that waterboarding had not been used. A chart released by the CIA detailing its briefings for lawmakers is vague on what transpired at that session. It says Pelosi and the top Intelligence Committee Republican, then-Rep. Porter J. Goss of Florida, were given a "description of the particular (enhanced interrogation techniques) that had been employed," without further details.

    The chart specifically notes a discussion of waterboarding in 13 briefings between February 2003 and March 2009, most attended by Democrats as well as Republicans.

    'They mislead us all the time'

    Pelosi renewed her call for a so-called truth commission to investigate the events in the Bush administration that led to the use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques. While President Barack Obama has banned waterboarding, calling it torture, he has been notably cool toward an independent inquiry that might distract attention from his domestic agenda.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., also has expressed opposition, as have congressional Republicans.

    Pelosi was particularly harsh in describing the CIA.

    "They mislead us all the time," she said. And when a reporter asked whether the agency had lied, Pelosi said yes.

    She also suggested that the current Republican criticism marked an attempt to divert attention from the Bush administration's actions.

    "They misrepresented every step of the way, and they don't want that focus on them, so they try to turn the attention on us," she said.

    Pelosi contended that Democrats did what they could to stop the use of waterboarding. The senior Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, who received the 2003 briefing on the practice, sent the CIA a formal letter of protest, she said.

    But Pelosi defended her own lack of action on the issue, saying her focus at the time was on wresting congressional control from Republicans so her party could change course.

    "No letter could change the policy. It was clear we had to change the leadership in Congress and in the White House. That was my job — the Congress part," Pelosi said.

    When Pelosi first addressed the question in late April, she said only that those present at her 2002 briefing were not told that the practice had been employed.

    "We were not — I repeat, were not — told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used," she said at the time.

    Later, her spokesman elaborated, saying Pelosi had been told the methods were legal but that they had not yet been used.

    On Thursday, Pelosi accused the CIA of having lied during that session by explicitly telling her that waterboarding was not used.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30745095
  17. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Is that the new branding for torture? Enhanced Techniques?

    Sounds like something Michael Phelps might have done to shave a 10th of a second off his lap time. I like it!
  18. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    It sounds like some Frank Luntz game play going on.
  19. ShiningStar

    ShiningStar Well-Known Member

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    If she knew she was being misled, if she knew they were lying to her or she knew ahead of time they were playing games, why didnt she make a big deal back than? Ooo thats right because it all didnt happen. Actually it was all a big dream she had.

    Yeah, you just keep talking Pelosi, looking more and more truthful after every time they refute your claim and than you go and make a new one.

    Pelosi: I wasn't there.

    Reporter: Video showing you were there.

    Pelosi: They didnt give us the memo.

    Reporter: heres the memo they handed out to everyone.

    Pelosi: They misled us.

    Reporter: Heres the memo of you telling them showing you what was being used or would be used in the near future.

    Pelosi: I was on the moon.

    Reporter: Heres video of you being on the moon while being briefed.

    Pelosi: Do i get any dragons in my next story?

    Reporter: Puff is available, not the dragon.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Is this the newest line by Nancy? As Lou Dobbs said her story keeps changing

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