1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

Nate Newton Speaks

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by TwoDeep3, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received
    "Swagger" is utterly meaningless. The Cowboys won in the early-mid 90s because they had a collection of players who were really great at football. Then in the mid-late 90s they started losing players who were good at playing football and replaced with guys who weren't as great at playing football. Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Deion Sanders, Nate Newton, Erik Williams ... all those guys with "swagger" were on the teams in 1998 and 1999 that got embarassed and destroyed in the playoffs. "Swagger" didn't mean jack in 1998 and 1999 when you're playing next to Clay Shiver, Solomon Page and Billy Davis.
  2. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

    30,485 Messages
    6,197 Likes Received
    Swagger is what you get when you know you're better than the other guys. It's not what makes you better than the other guys. It's no surprise that good teams have players with swag. We've got them, too, but they keep their mouths shut when they're 8-8 and don't make the playoffs.
  3. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

    1,945 Messages
    673 Likes Received
    The NFL is full of guys in the league because they belong. There is a miniscule amount of difference between winning and losing. Your idea of attitude and swagger is a made up thing that you think anyone can just attempt to have, thus its fantasy. Nate Newton, Jimmy and others who talk about this stuff's idea is that teams who practice right, are coached right, work hard and and are mentally prepared can beat other teams because they are willing to push themselves more than other teams. They walk on the field with attitude because they know that all of their teammates buy into this and are prepared mentally. When there is a country club attitude, this does not exist. That was Nate's point, Jimmy's point and anyone else's point that has heard pros talk about it. It is the difference between teams. There is nothing more to say if you can't realize this is how the NFL operates. Guys like Irvin had swagger and attitude not because it was some made up thing...according to you...but because he knew thew they were better prepared, disciplined and conditioned. I knew that when I played in high school we were stronger than other teams in the 4th because we ran wind sprints in the Texas Summer heat for 2 weeks before having 2 a days in Granbury, Texas in mid-August. We all knew that. That is where the attitude comes from for these guys. They push themselves. The Cowboys don't have that.
  4. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received
    So Jimmy didn't win in Miami not because he didn't have enough talent, but because he forgot how to infuse his team with "swagger"?


    Huh.


    [IMG]

    What really amazes me are guys like Ken Wisenhunt and how suddenly he forgets how to install discipline and "swagger" into his teams. It's like, one year he had it a team in the Superbowl with lots of "swagger", and the next year he suddenly forgot how to do it practically overnight. I thought it was the difference between having Kurt Warner and having Kevin Kolb/John Skelton, but I never scored 5 TDs for Polk High.


    You would probably be jumping for joy if Jerry hired Mike Ditka to run the Cowboys drafts. Very few people so closely share the same philosophy of football as you do. Most notably in the Saints 1997 draft when he ignored all of the scouts and massively reached for guys like Jared Tomich, Troy Davis and Danny Wuerffel because they had amazing "heart" in college (I've been told that's the one thing you CANT measure).
  5. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

    12,099 Messages
    1,122 Likes Received
    There's a book that talks about what Belichick thought of the term 'swagger.' It's not pretty.





    YR
  6. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received
    I really wonder why Irvin and Nate refused to create and share "swagger" with their teammates from 1996 onwards. They obviously knew what it is and what it takes to attain it, so I have no other answers other than that they purposely and actively prohibited it sometime around December 1996.
  7. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

    7,807 Messages
    772 Likes Received
    I think the term swagger is stupid.

    But grit, determination, attitude is 100% real and to pretend as though these attributes are an imaginary fan construct is just as stupid. Some players possess these intangibles and some don't. And sometimes in a close contest, these intangibles can make the difference between winning and losing. It's not merely brains+athleticism=championship.
  8. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

    1,945 Messages
    673 Likes Received
    If you ever took the time to read and understand football, you'd probably do more than make smart- comments and try to put people down.

    Go re-read my last post. I said the attitude comes with hard work, discipline and having a team that buys in and knows they are going to outwork the team they are playing. When players don't buy in and are just happy to have the star on their helmet then you don't win. It's exactly why Aikman didn't like Barry...no discipline and accountability. Guys weren't taking the game as seriously. It is a basic concept. But your too busy finding graphics to post and crafting smart-a responses rather than learn something or understand how it works. Jimmy didn't win in Miami because not enough guys bought in. The reason why he never went back to coaching either. Guys weren't willing to take in the message and work for it. Same with Parcells. Guys didn't want to listen to the message anymore. It doesn't guarantee SBs but it makes better teams.

    Thank you. EVERY NFL player talks about it. It is something EVERY team tries to capture but can't always when guys don't do the work or aren't coached right. AGAIN, it is why Jimmy and others have brought up a country club attitude. That attitude translates onto the field. Men that have been there and have seen what it takes...not internet jokesters. There is a reason why Jerry Rice and Walter Payton were running hills in the off-season and trying to win while other guys take a paycheck and try and get by on talent.
  9. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received
    So you believe that the Arizona Cardinals went from Playoffs in 2009 to to 5-11 2010 not because Kurt Warner retired and was replaced by Derek Anderson, but because Ken Wisenhunt suddenly forgot how to prepare his team in the 5 months between the seasons.
  10. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

    1,945 Messages
    673 Likes Received
    Case and point

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/11/19/4427292/michael-irvin-sees-the-glass-half.html

  11. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

    1,945 Messages
    673 Likes Received
    Can you just concentrate on the premise at hand please and stop trying to steer this into some abstract concept?

    The original story was that Nate Newton didn't think we were a playoff team because we didn't have the mental toughness and attitude to win those extra 2 games. That's it!!

    No one is saying that the Browns can win the SB on sheer will and attitude. No one is saying you lose a team of HOFers and you still win the SB with attitude. What Nate, Irvin(above), Jimmy and others are saying is that the difference between teams like the Cowboys..with talent enough to win...and say a division rival or another team fighting for a playoff spot is attitude. The extra work. The right coaching to instill the discipline. The extra wind sprints that lets a team make 2-3 extra plays. Because that is what separates 10-6 and 8-8. EVERY team, even the best, have bad weeks and sometimes bad years. Nate's point was that you can all of the talent in the world but if they are lazy, have mental lapses and aren't prepared, then they will lose when they need a win. That's it. Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, etc all worked harder than everyone else. So when it came down to Cowboys/49ers and both teams were talented, he knew he could get the big first down on 3rd and 8. "Country Club" comes from guys who ruin this concept by taking a paycheck, having the star and consistently blowing assignments and taking bad penalties. They don't have the right attitude. They don't come into a game knowing they've done all they can do to help us win.
  12. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received
    Players believe lots of superstitious nonsense. The fact that they vocally voice superstitious nonsense means absolutely nothing. They wear lucky shirts. Many eat the same pre-game meal every week because they believe it brings them luck. Many don't change socks or shave in the middle of a winning streak. Given that their livelihoods are dependent on luck and variance moreso than other people, it's not a surprise they believe in a whole lot of vague voodoo. Besides, it's easier to blame unquantified intangibles for why your "swagger" doesn't mean jack in 1998 compared to 1993 than to admit your just not as good of a football player as you used to be.
  13. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received
    Read the book Boys Will Be Boys. The 1995 Cowboys team personified "County Club Atmosphere" more than this current team could ever dream of. They chartered their own busload of skanks and strippers every where they went to ensure that the White House could follow them wherever they were. Irvin bussed in his own 30-foot bus full of strippers and vodka to party with him during the Superbowl Week. You choose to believe that it was all about extra windsprints because that's much more romantic, appealing and sentimental narrative about meritocracy .
  14. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

    1,945 Messages
    673 Likes Received
    I read it. Just because Michael Irvin had issues didn't mean that he still didn't work his tail off for every game and prepare. Didn't mean that they didn't work hard in practice. Thjey were considered one of the hardest working teams. Sorry. I'll trust Jimmy, Irvin and the others over someone on the internet who can't follow a simple conversation.

    One piece of advice. RIF. Frustrating actually trying to talk football when your not reading. I'm amazed that you can read my above paragraph and still come up with this...especially when the 98 to 93 thing was explained. Teams of comparable ability, etc. Unreal.

    http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/20514-aikman-tikis-attitude-to-blame

  15. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    19,464 Messages
    1,291 Likes Received
    They are also 4 of the most physically gifted men to ever play the game.

    Deion and Rod Woodson were considered the fastest DBs in football for a good while.

    Sapp the most explosive DT.

    Faulk had perhaps the best hands of any RB ever.

    Talk to me about the mental game of a guy who was 30 pounds underweight but surviving or a slow CB who found a way to battle it out.

    Don't tell me about attitude when you were bigger, faster and stronger than just about everyone you ever matched up with. Because that is total garbage.
  16. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

    20,635 Messages
    1,100 Likes Received
    Does Rat play with attitude? (at least when he was healthy)
    Does Ware play with attitude? (at least when he's healthy)
    Does Hatcher play with attitude?
    Does Spencer play with attitude?
    Does Sean Lee play with attitude?
    Does Carter play with attitude?
    Does Carr play with attitude?
    Does Claiborne play with attitude?
    Does Scandrick play with attitude?
    Does Church play with attitude?
  17. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

    18,334 Messages
    79 Likes Received

    When we win the game? Yes. When we lose the game? No.
  18. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

    19,464 Messages
    1,291 Likes Received
    Except Dallas won a Super Bowl under Barry Switzer.
    We hired Bill Parcells and couldn't win a single playoff game.

    So you tell me. Is talent more important or attitude?

    As Barry has pointed out a million times when he played Jimmy Johnson as opposing head coaches the team with the best talent won every time.

    I have coached against coaches Far greater than myself and beat them handily when I had better talent. I have also been kicked in the teeth by numskull coaches who had better players.

    You absolutely need to work hard and have the will to win but those aren't rare qualities. They simply get recognized when you do win. Which comes from having talent in the first place.

    In this era of SB champ to missing playoffs and vice versa attitude is one of the sillier arguments to make. Coughlin is a good, tough-minded coach. That missed the playoffs this year. Same for Tomlin. Were these teams soft and weak all of a sudden? If they win titles next year is it because they had toughness seminars?

    Dallas needs a lot of things but chief amongst them is just more healthy and available talent.
  19. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Well-Known Member

    1,945 Messages
    673 Likes Received
    READ MY QUOTES!!!

    We aren't talking talent. Nate's argument was making plays to be 10-6 vs 8-8. We have talent. The teams like the Skins have talent and were in the same position. Jimmy's take, Nate's take, Irvin's take...beating teams and the difference in games like these is that extra attitude that comes with the hard work, conditioning, discipline (not to make a mental mistake in a big situation) . It's simple. You are fooling yourself if you think every player in the league takes their job just as seriously as the next guy and is just as prepared. Bill Parcells methods didn't work anymore. He admitted that. We had one of our best teams ever under Barry his first year and 3 straight turnovers vs a similar team in the NFC Championship game doomed us. No one is saying that talent isn't a factor or that attitude can make you win 5 straight SBs. The point is that when it comes to the difference in games with equal teams or in situations where a win is big, those extra intangibles are what gets some teams through....extra film, etc. The NFL is loaded with talent. Some guys work harder. Truth. You think that these guys just make it up?

    Health is a copout. We had a similar team and all health the year before and were 8-8. Same position, same failure.

    The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will.
    Vince Lombardi

    Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence. --Lombardi
    Vince Lombardi



  20. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

    20,635 Messages
    1,100 Likes Received
    Do you want to read mine and point out the guys on defense who don't play with attitude?

Share This Page