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NFC East by position-QB

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by jobberone, Jul 4, 2013.

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Rank the starting QBs in the NFC East

Poll closed Jul 11, 2013.
Dallas-Romo 124 vote(s) 64.6%
NYG-Manning 38 vote(s) 19.8%
Philly-Vick 1 vote(s) 0.5%
Wash-Griffin 29 vote(s) 15.1%
  1. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

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    It's also clear that a supposed fan of the Cowboys or football in general still will not grasp the concept of TEAM!

    Team...get it. That means that the QB is not the only player on the team. The team consists of the players, offense, defense, special teams, strength of schedule, coaches, trainers, playing conditions, injuries, the bounce of the ball, character, etc.

    You claim that 8 million people follow you on a daily basis (how you would know that or why you would even say that is beyond me), but surely, at least a few of those 8 million fans or yours have tried, and tried and tried, to get you and other Romo critics to understand the term team...yet you and those others disregard that word TEAM like the plague.

    There is no way in hell that you or anyone else on the planet can say that had Eli been the QB of the Cowboys as long as Romo has that he would still have won 2 SB's. However, I have no doubt (well maybe) that you would say that Eli is a better QB than Dan Marino who never one a SB.
    :cool:

    And just for all the other posters around, my buddy KJJ has me on ignore, so he won't read this.

    lol
    zack and AsthmaField like this.
  2. jobberone

    jobberone Orangutans make great bass players Staff Member

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    You're the new GM for your NFL team. You have the resources to acquire Eli, Romo, RG, or Vick to be your QB for now and the future. Who are you going to call? Other than RG the rest are older and RG looks like a train that's going to jump the tracks. I'd be torn between Romo and RG. I wouldn't dismiss Eli's SB wins but I wouldn't give it near the weight some here do. Romo is by far the more talented prototypical QB. Vick and RG are athletic and can spin a ball. How accurately I don't know for sure about RG. He did have the highest YPA last year I believe and it was a pretty dang good one if I remember correctly.

    G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV

    137 135 78-57-0 2612 4457 58.6 31527 211 4.7 144 3.2 99 7.1 6.6 12.1 230.1 82.7 213 1512 6.43 5.94 4.6 24 28 101

    121 93 55-38-0 2097 3240 64.7 25737 177 5.5 91 2.8 85 7.9 7.8 12.3 212.7 95.6 178 1150 7.19 7.03 5.2 18 19 86

    I understand some don't like the stats but they say a fair amt. And my eyeball tells me the same thing. They both turn the ball over a little bit much for me. I'd rather have Luck although his stats don't measure up to RG. However, he didn't have the run game RG had, he can't run that well, and he had to carry his club and RG didn't.
  3. CowboyGil

    CowboyGil Active Member

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    Eli-A
    Romo-C+
    RG3-Inc.
    Vick(with Eagles)-F
  4. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    If an NFL GM was building a team and had the option of Eli or Romo, he would look at the post season success, and extrapolate that Eli, even with a better team, can handle the stresses of post season play with his two Super Bowl wins.

    Then he would go about building the team around Eli to offer him the same type of scenario that got him SB MVPs.

    No one shops on woulda, shoulda, coulda, except noted non-football guys that bought their way into the NFL.

    While the slander of this guy Eli is understandable considering the site, the players in question are fairly close in skill sets. I think Eli throws that out much better than Romo and seems to get rid of the ball moments before disaster and places it in the right spot.

    The stats would be an interesting point of view, but when you are looking for a "winner," all things being equal, Eli has the skins on the wall, and thus would be chosen more than Romo.

    Romo has game. But in the end can a GM really look at his career and see the win or go home moments and not use those stats as a deciding factor?

    By the way, I find it ironic that some people scream about team while defending Romo in a Romo only thread.
  5. Afigueroa22

    Afigueroa22 Well-Known Member

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    Believe it or not I am very pro Romo. What I mean to say is the guy is over confident in his abilities. He`s not Brady or Manning. When he throws picks it`s not because of over throws or inaccuracy, it`s because he believes he can make an amazing play every down. For the most part behind this line he does.

    That's just what I think though and I'm nobody special. :)
  6. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I don't think this is accurate. It would be similar to how the college draft works for players. The GMs would look for a player with prototypical size and strength. The ability to make all the throws. They'd look at his intelligence and his ability to read defenses, and draft accordingly. The performance of his college team would be a much, much lower concern.

    Similarly, look at players like Alex Smith, who got his team to a championship game, or, years before now, Trent Dilfer, who's got a Superbowl ring. Could-should-would didn't help those guys, because they weren't better players than other guys in the league who's teams weren't as successful.

    No matter how you slice it, the NFL is a team game. You have to both pass well, and stop the other team from passing well. Dismissing a QB because of the performance of the entire roster doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
  7. jobberone

    jobberone Orangutans make great bass players Staff Member

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    That's a hypothetical so either of us could be right. But I don't think anyone would look at two or several games and make a decision like that. You look at the entire body of work then you talk to people around the league esp your own coaches. You ask a few retired QBs then sit down with your team both FO, scouts and coaches then hash it out over a period of time. You bring some film in and start criticizing the players then go back over the positives and who fits your offense and team as well as are they someone you can work with most days of the year. The last is very important. I know that's what I"d do for any really critical employee in my workplace. I base that on other models for successfully hiring people and running businesses as well as my own experience. If I had to do that today it'd either be Romo or RG and I think that would be a tough decision for me.
  8. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    I don't have you on ignore just been ignoring you but when you post lies just to get a response I'm going to call you on it. Go find a post where I claimed I had 8 million people following me. Care to make a wager that I said that? Let's see the post and the link to the thread. :D
  9. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    But the coulda, shoulda, woulda is exactly what you build this trust in Romo on.

    If he coulda had a team around him.

    But that is conjecture.

    I think the post season performances, where Eli has come up big and Romo has not would have more bearing on the decision than you believe.

    Again I will say it. I like Romo.

    But I don't shade my opinion of him based on my liking him.
  10. DallasDomination

    DallasDomination Well-Known Member

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    Manning- Stepped up when it mattered most( yes he had a good team around him, so does every other playoff team)
    RG3- When healthy he looked unstoppable!( hope he stays healthy)
    Romo- I think it's a fair rating for him, he's had solid teams, he's had really good years..He just has to put it together in the playoffs and cut back on the mistakes
    Vick- Prime Vick would be tough to put last when healthy with what he brought to the table but right now he's last. He's to inconsistent and injury prone.
  11. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Not at all. I'm not saying 'if he coulda had a team around him.' I'm saying, he's a good QB, regardless. You're the one saying the other stuff matters.

    I'm a big believer in evaluating the players you have on your roster and then upgrading the personnel that way, rather than changing the most important players, first, if you don't get the results you want. In our case, we've got a very good QB already. A better one than the Giants have right now, team hardware notwithstanding. Our problems are elsewhere. Our problems have been with our passing defense.
  12. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    Wait a minute....this is a theory exercise in if you are starting a franchise and these were the two players you had a choice of hiring as FAs.

    I am not suggesting replacing Romo at all. But the in theory question was which would I take as a GM. And then the discussion wandered to a GM in general and what he would look at.

    I am not denigrating Romo. But if both he and Eli were on the market, I believe a GM would look at not only the SB MVPs but the road to the SB where he performed brilliantly and take that as the piece which persuades an Eli over Romo decision.
  13. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    Yes football is a team game and the QB isn't the only player but they're the most important player which is why they receive most of the credit when their team wins and most of the blame when their team loses. They influence the outcome of games more than any other player which is why QB's are named SB MVP more than any other player and are the highest paid players in the game. The Hall of Fame is littered with QB's who have busts in Canton because they led their teams to multiple championships. They were credited with their teams success. Does anyone think Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Bob Griese or Troy Aikman would be in the HOF had they not won multiple championships? They received a lot of credit for those wins because they all got it done when it mattered most. Had it not been for his famous guarantee and upset victory over the Colts in SB III Joe Namath wouldn't be in the HOF. He's was credited with that win.

    Unless a QB is putting up incredible regular season numbers that few QB's in history have matched the postseason will determine their place in history. Joe Montana is considered the greatest QB of all-time not because of his regular season performances/numbers but because of his clutch postseason performances that include 4 SB wins and 3 SB MVP awards. Anyone think Montana would be thought as highly of had his pass to Clark got picked in the closing seconds of the 81 NFC title game or had he found a Bengals DB in the end zone instead of John Taylor in the closing seconds of SB XXIII? If you ask all the experts who the best QB is in the NFC East most will tell you Eli Manning with a few possibly saying RG3 but none would pick Romo because of his elimination game performances. This subject has been discussed several times on NFLN and ESPN and hardly anyone ever picks Romo as the best QB in the division because of how poorly he plays when it's all on the line.

    None of the experts who know football care about Romo's regular season numbers and passer rating anymore. He's a stat guy who plays great throughout most of the regular season then ends up laying an egg when it's all on the line. Romo has a losing record the past 3 seasons and hasn't played in a playoff game since 09. It certainly hasn't been all his fault but he's clearly played a part and those who can't see it or refuse to will never come to grips with it.
  14. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Active Member

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    Obviously, I will be seen as biased, but here's mine:

    Griffin
    Romo
    Eli
    any of the eagles

    Now, this is said with a HUGE asterisk, Griffin only has one year and we all know he has to prove it wasn't a fluke. That said, when he is healthy(part of the asterisk of course), he had an amazing command of the offense, especially considering it was his rookie season. From the team aspect, he led his team to wins against every division rival, and just came up 1 Moss fumble (or defensive snafu) short of sweeping the division. Griffin does need to not fumble as much. It was crazy that he had 12 fumbles (3rd behind Rivers and Sanchez), but only lost 2 and 2 of his fumbles were turned into TD's for us. Romo had 6, and lost 3, Eli had 5 and lost 1. But he doesn't throw many INT's at all, and that has been the case his whole college and now NFL career, so I expect that to continue. His YPA were number 1 in the league, His passer rating was #3, His 5 int's (in 16 games including the Seattle game) was the lowest in the league for a starter of 15+ games, compare that to Eli's 15 in 16 games, Romo's 19 in 16 games, and Vick's 10 in 10 games. Romo and Griffin both had a Completion% of 65.6, and Griffin's Y/C was slightly higher - 12.4 to 11.5

    I get that Griffin didn't put the yards up that Romo does every season, and truthfully, if Romo leads your team to a TD on that drive where he throws the int, I would put him as number 1. Romo has the stats to be number one, he has the evasiveness to extend plays and drive defenses crazy. He is better at that then Eli. Romo has never had a passer rating under 90% for a season, and he has completed more than 60% of his passes every season. He clearly is an outstanding qb, and if he didn't have those moments that just make you shake your head (often at a very wrong time) he would have led your team to at least 1 NFC championship.

    Eli just finds a way, once in a while. But I don't see him as this excellent qb. He earned his rings, but he was an important cog, rather than the driver that made it all go. I see both Romo and Griffin as drivers, when they are going right, there team follows them and wins. Eli is as up and down as the rest of the Giants are, but they have shown twice that they knew the ultimate goal. Throwing out outlier seasons of 53% and 63% Eli's completion% has been in the 57-62% range and twice he has led the league in INT's. His YPA(7.1 career) and YPC (12.1 career) are respectable, and certainly give him claim to competitiveness. Just, for me the INT's and completion % both lower his spot in my opinion.

    Eagles qbs, not even worth looking stats up.

    all stats referenced were found on profootball-reference.com, as well as any rankings I referenced.
  15. Gameover

    Gameover Well-Known Member

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    Eli
    Romo
    Griffith




    Vick
  16. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    You're biased but at least your guy was rookie of the year last season and won an elimination game on one leg. We have Cowboy FANS making excuses about Romo's ribs at the end of the game. RG3 didn't play great but he didn't do anything to get Washington beat.
  17. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I love RGIII as a player, but you're mistaken if you think he's not going to do things to get his team beat in big games in his career. The fans 'making excuses' for Romo are just fans who understand what a really good QB he is.

    I don't like ranking players to begin with, since the only thing that matters is 'is he good enough to win a Superbowl.' The NFCE has three players right now who, in my opinion, are. I happen to like Romo's current skill set the best. I'd take RGIII over all of them given his age, and I think Eli is a pretty dang good QB who's spotty and generally overrated because he happens to play on a team with a very good defensive front that's capable of shutting down the other guys' passing game.
  18. Mactin

    Mactin Member

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    Thinking about this let see the skills of each players.

    DAL-Romo has great passing skills and can get out of pressure most of the time. He got so many receiving targets out here that it not even funny. Although he does lose in the important games, most of those lost games where not Romo fault as he was trying to make something out of those lost which ends in being picks.

    Wash-What to say about RG3? He now a 1st year pro QB and already has help took his team to the playoffs in the first year. You don't see a rookie QB do that now a days. His running game and passing makes him unpredictable and even thought he coming out of knee surgery, I think he will still be the same as he was before. The only thing I can think of as a weekness is that he doesn't have much NFL experience unlike the other three starting QB. Overall I can see him go deep in the playoffs.

    NYG- Manning doesn't have the mobile skills like Romo and RG3 has but he still can make great throws when he needs two. He is probably the most clutch out of the four starting NFC East QB and it got him two Super Bowl rings and more playoff wins than anyone in the division. There is not much to kit pick about him other than the fact that he barely makes it into the playoff like Romo.

    PHI- I think people say that Vick does not have the skill he once had and that understandable. He does have the mobile ability like RG3 and Romo but you still have to question if he can still be good.

    that being said the ranking goes as follows:


    Romo- Yeah he may lose those big games but you cannot denied the fact that he is a good QB and take the Cowboys to the Super Bowl if he has the right team with him. Keep in mind when it had a great OL in 2007 they were 13-3 and the number 1 seed in the NFC. They were two games away from a Super Bowl game and although they were knocked out my the Gaints 21-17 that last play could have taken them to the next round.

    RG3 and Manning- Both these two are tried second because they can make the plays that are needed to win and that good passing ability. Manning got two rings and is the only starting QB from that division with Super Bowl rings. His ability to clutch in the 4th has gotten him wins against so many teams. RG3 is a rising star that will get into the HOF if he keeps doing what he doing. Robert got the most mobile ability in the division and look where that along with his passing gotten him.

    Vick- I don't know who is the starting QB over in Phily, but it might be Vick. I can see him being replace for Folks or someone else. His passing game is good and can become a wild card in division.

    One thing for certain this division could go ether way.
  19. jobberone

    jobberone Orangutans make great bass players Staff Member

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    Well, if all this has been discussed on the NFL Network and ESPN then we can just shut down the thread. Those two are the gold standards for everyone to follow and come down ex cathedra.
  20. zack

    zack Well-Known Member

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    The reason they don't pick Romo is because they are afraid to be scrutinized. Go back to last season when Armani Toomer said that he would take Romo over Eli on "NFL Radio". Do you remember how much attention that got?? It was in the press for weeks. Isn't it amazing that a guy that actually "played" with Manning even said that?

    And then Romo outplayed Eli in both games head to head. Then Eli goes for 4 games without throwing a TD, throws for a 1000 yards less than the previous years, yet he is still considered Elite. Can you imagine if Romo didn't throw a td pass in 4 games? The media would be all over him!

    As I have said before, "if" Romo wins a SB, he will be considered better than Eli....

    Just like Brees, Rodgers, P. Manning who have won less SB's than Eli....

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