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O-line risers and sliders: Luke Joeckel fails to impress

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by RS12, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    Risers

    Jonathan Cooper, OG, North Carolina:

    Cooper impressed scouts the minute he arrived in Indianapolis and looked terrific during his entire combine workout. Cooper knocked out 35-repititions of 225-pounds on the bench press and his muscular frame tipped the scale at 313-pounds. Both marks pleasantly surprised NFL scouts. He clocked 5.07 in the 40-yard dash before looking sensational during position drills. Cooper was quick, flexible and moved effortlesslyaround the field. The All-American guard also snapped the ball from center during a number of drills, displaying a degree of versatility in his game. Cooper came to the combine as a mid-first round choice, but could leave as a top 10 pick.

    Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas Pine-Bluff:

    The small-school prospect turned in an eye-popping workout and has scouts buzzing. His 40-time of 4.71 (including a ten yard split of 1.67), is one of the fastest ever for an offensive lineman. His other marks include 31 reps on the bench press, a vertical jump of 34.5 inches and a 9-4 broad jump. Armstead proved to be a complete blocker during position drills as he was quick footed and fast moving in every direction of the field. He's a potential second-round choice.

    Eric Fisher, OT, Central Michigan:

    Fisher, largely projected as a Top 10 pick, was impressive. His marks included a 40-time of 5.05, a 4.44 in the 20-yard shuttle and a broad jump of 9-8. During position drills Fisher showed the uncanny ability to keep his 6-7 frame low to the ground, something NFL decision makers love to see. He continues to prove he's the complete package.

    Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma:

    The former tight end displayed his natural athleticism with a 4.72 40-time and posting a 34-inch vertical jump. Johnson also completed 28-reps on the bench, a satisfactory mark for a 6-6 tackle whose arm length exceeds 35 inches. He translated his athleticism onto the field during drills as Johnson's quickness and footwork looked NFL caliber. His performance should push Johnson into the middle portion of Round 1.

    Brian Schwenke, C, California:

    Schwenke was a fringe prospect entering the 2012 season, but he gained attention after switching to center his senior season. He was the most athletic center on the field Saturday and stood out during position drills, displaying the best footwork of any blocker in attendance. Schwenke showed tremendous quickness, movement skills and practiced with great balance. He has moved from a draft afterthought into the top 90 picks.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/02/23/rise-fall-offensive-line/1941809/
  2. bpfred

    bpfred Member

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    I like Fisher more than any other OL in the draft--and maybe more than any other player in the draft. I think he is more physically gifted than Joeckel, and expect him to be a better player after about the first five or six games of their rookie year.

    The only 'freakish' talent I've seen is Lane Johnson (leaving aside Armstead, whom I haven't really seen). He's a better athlete than Ansah or Patterson, both of whom I think are very good athletes, but not quite freaks. I think Joeckel is a better player than Johnson now, and will probably be so in their second year, but wonder if Johnson won't be better after that...

    I think Warmack is better suited to man blocking than zone blocking. He's thickly built, and looks really strong, but doesn't move all that well. I have doubts about how well he can pull, and also have doubts about how good he will be getting to the second level in the NFL. For the zone blocking scheme the Cowboys run, I would rather have Cooper of the two.

    I was a little disappointed with Mendalik Watson. He was a good athlete, but not exceptional--my expectations were very high. There are a few OTs with more athletic ability than him in this draft. Given his limited football background I would rank him as more of a fourth or fifth rounder.

    One guy I liked, who has gotten very little attention, is Watford from James Madison. He had really good feet, and looked trim for a 300 lb guard. He needs a year in the weight room but he looked like exactly what you want in a zone blocking OL. He's also somebody I suspect may be a 4th or 5th rounder.

    I also like EJ Manuel at QB. He's big, athletic, has a pretty good arm, has huge hands, and wins a lot of football games. I think he has more upside than any of the other QBs in this draft. If you could sit him for two or three years, ala Aaron Rogers, he may develop into a really good starting QB.
  3. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    Good call on Watford
    ..impressed me as well

    Also very surprised at how well schwenke moved
    ..looked very fluid
  4. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    People getting worked up over OL doing Combine skill drills are verifiably insane.

    These guys will never be asked to do these things again ever after their pro days.

    They will have on 30 pounds of pads and asked to move in much smaller areas.

    Nate Newton probably couldn't run a 5.5 40 much less a 5.0 flat. It didn't really make one bit of difference to the guy he was moving out of the hole every play.

    These pretty boy, used to be TE OL are so vastly overrated. You need 1 of those athletes. The rest of the OL need to be able to whip somebodies butt in man on man blocking. And I could care less if it is zone or man scheme. When you zone you still have to beat the man in that zone.

    Senior Bowl drills >>> Combine drills.
  5. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    I watched Jockell a lot in games ... dunno, doesn't seem all that special to me. Definitely more Eric Winston than Orlando Pace. Texas A&M ran out of the shotgun almost 100% of the time, and Jockell was never asked to set up a perimeter on the pocket on a QB coming out of a 5-7 step drop waiting for routes to develop down field. Guys like that are always a risk (hello Jason Smith)
  6. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    Whether guys are rising or falling, there's no reason Dallas shouldn't be able to come away from this draft with a starting OL, DL, and S. Too much talent available at those positions.
  7. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    KC should look for a sucker team that wants a QB at #1 and trade down.
    But with them getting Alex Smith, that already subtracts one of the QB needy teams from the early (Rd1-2) mix.
    I didn't think Buffalo would go QB in the 1st, but if Gino falls to the 8th pick they very well may do it.
  8. HoosierCowboy

    HoosierCowboy Put Pearson in the HOF

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    Give me the meanest OLineman who runs the fastest 10, keeps low, can bench 500 pounds, and has a brain
  9. Shinywalrus

    Shinywalrus Active Member

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    The slide drills are worthwhile, and Joeckel looked OK there. He's not Joe Thomas clean, so I'm not sure where those comparisons are coming from. Eugene Monroe and Joe Staley feel like the best comparisons to me.

    Fisher looks like the cleanest tackle to me. No waist-bending there. But the top 4-5 OL are all fairly solid, lousy year to have a top 10 pick, all considered.
  10. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I feel bad for KC. This is a year where I might try to shop that first pick for an existing player and a move way down. A big dropoff from the #1 last year.
  11. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Joeckel might be a little overrated.

    He holds more than most OLinemen that I watched this past season. Also, pass-rushers always appeared tentative due to being required to contain Johnny.
  12. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    That's a good point. I don't know how often the outside rushers were freed to make the hard inside counter move given that their coaches probably wanted to keep Manzel contained in pocket.
  13. whateverman

    whateverman The Debacler

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    I have a huge hetero man crush on Cooper
  14. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    Me too. That fan base has suffered for a long time and they get in a position to greatly improve their franchise, and their options are just terrible.

    A tackle who nobody is really in love with, couple pass rushers that have serious medical conditions, and a QB who would normally be a second round pick.

    And who is going to trade with them? There's nobody at the top to move up for.
  15. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    Has to sting even more looking at next year's class. I would take Clowney, Manziel, Bridgewater, Lee, Lewan and Tuitt over anyone in this class.
  16. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

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    Joeckel will do better at his pro day. So will others like Warmack, Fluker and Warford. The boards will change yet again.

    Then again when teams start looking at tape again. Then again when the teams do their invites. Combine is not the be all and end all folks.
  17. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Not really, huh? Maybe if there's a team in position to lose a good player at a position of need who's got a balloon in his contract? Take on that headache and swap picks in a small package and move way down? Problem is, even in that scenario, there's not really a standout player at any position an established team is really going to covet. There's really almost no where to go with that pick, at all. They just have to take the safest pick possible, and have it hurt their cap going forward.
  18. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know about Manziel. His actual Height is a big question at this point. I know everybody is going to say what about Russell Wilson and I get that but I don't know if Manziel is Wilson. Wilson I really liked coming out. Remains to be seen if Manziel will be Wilson IMO.
  19. Shinywalrus

    Shinywalrus Active Member

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    Clowney is the only one in that group that I'm sure about that on.

    Fisher and Lewan feel like comparables to me. Manziel I'm not sure I'd spend a #2 pick on. Not sure I'd take Tuitt over Floyd or Richardson today.

    I agree in general that the top of this draft is soft, but I feel like that has more to do with the lack of a step-change between the top 4-5 picks and picks 15-20. I feel better about the talent in picks 15-60 than in any draft in recent memory, so to me having a top 10 pick this year is more about optionality - you get the guy that you want rather than taking an equally talented guy that you have to follow the board on. Doesn't mean there's a huge drop in talent, but there's still some value to being high.
  20. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    I think the split and 40 are important for teams that want to run screens and pull a lot. Being able to get downfield and block keeping in front of your RB is important IMO.

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