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Obama to outsource torture.

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by JBond, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    An Obama spokesperson says Obama will keep the rendition policy of the Bush admistration.

    So he wants to close Gitmo and send the people out of the country to be tortured. I thought libs were against sending jobs overseas.

    Obama is pro torture after all. I wonder if the detainees would rather stay in Gitmo or be sent to who knows where to have information extracted from them by whatever means.
  2. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    Barack Obama grants CIA permission to retain right to carry out renditions

    The banner headlines greeting President Obama’s decision to close the detention centre at Guantánamo Bay and secret CIA prisons may have concealed how he has retained one of the most controversial weapons in the War on Terror.

    Under executive orders signed on January 22, the CIA appears to have preserved its authority to carry out renditions – by which hundreds of terrorist suspects have been abducted and transferred to prisons in countries with questionable human rights records such as Egypt, Morocco or Jordan.

    The measure, disclosed by the Los Angeles Times yesterday, gives some indication of how Mr Obama’s promise of change may be slower to be realised than once hoped, with the new Administration coming under concerted attack across a range of issues.

    These include efforts to get bipartisan backing for a near-$900 billion (£620 billion) economic stimulus programme and the choice for Health Secretary of Tom Daschle, whose failure to pay back taxes has jarred with pledges to restore ethical government.

    An administration official was quoted yesterday defending rendition. “Obviously you need to preserve some tools. You still have to go after the bad guys,” said the official. “It is controversial in some circles. But if done within certain parameters, it is acceptable.”

    The European Parliament has condemned renditions, some of which have involved flights with stopovers in British territory, as illegal under international law.

    In the executive orders the President merely promised a review of rendition policy, with the intention of ensuring that suspects were not sent to other countries “to face torture”. Dianne Feinstein, the Democratic chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, suggested yesterday that suspects would be held only temporarily in foreign prisons, but added: “The finer points of it have to be fleshed out.”

    Clive Stafford Smith, the director of Reprieve, the British human rights group, said: “Western liberals are totally deluded at the moment. Like George Bush, who declared ‘mission accomplished’ on Iraq six years ago, they need to realise that the job is far from done. I believe that Obama’s heart is in the right place but he is surrounded by people in the US intelligence and military who don’t want either themselves or their policies subjected to too much scrutiny.”

    Claude Moraes, the Labour MEP who was part of the European committee investigating CIA renditions, said that it was hard to criticise Mr Obama because he had “godlike status at the moment”, adding: “We should be pleased he has closed Guantánamo and acknowledged the existence of the secret CIA prisons. But if he’s going to complete the change, he must see that rendition is part of the package. I have heard testimony from people who have clearly been tortured in Egypt and Jordan. To deposit people in those prisons still speaks volumes about American foreign policy.”

    Mr Obama, who has disappointed liberal activists by his reluctance to order investigations into alleged illegal acts carried out in the name of national security by the Bush Adminstration, also knows he must brace a war-weary public for a build-up of the battle against the Taleban and al-Qaeda.

    His primary focus, however, remains domestic affairs, with the Senate preparing to debate the economic stimulus Bill today amid warnings that there is scant support from Republicans. Last night Mr Obama was hosting a party to watch the Super Bowl at the White House with senior congressmen from both sides of the aisle in the hope of restoring some bipartisan lustre. This week he is also expected to nominate the Republican Senator Judd Gregg as Commerce Secretary.

    Last week, however, he failed to win a single Republican vote for the stimulus package in the House of Representatives. Senator Jon Kyl, a senior Republican, toldFox Newsyesterday that conservatives were becoming angry at the vast – and potentially wasteful – public spending proposed.

    Mr Kyl was among Republicans asking how Mr Daschle failed to inform Mr Obama’s team about a failure to pay $128,203 in back taxes until a few weeks ago, when the Health Secretary-designate was aware of the mistake as far back as June last year.

    - President Obama’s half-brother George has insisted that he is not a drug user, after being arrested but then released for alleged marijuana possession in a Kenyan slum. He spent two hours in a police cell before being set free on Saturday.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5636297.ece
  3. CowboyMcCoy

    CowboyMcCoy Business is a Boomin

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    And so do you think this is a natural law question or a positive (statutory) law question? Once out of our custody, we can't do much of anything anyways.

    I take a moral relativist stance here.
  4. neosapien23

    neosapien23 Well-Known Member

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    The first one. Make no mistake about it, Pakistan will do a much better job of making terrorists talk than we do.
  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    We've been doing this in this country for some time now. In fact, when Former President Clinton came into office and slashed the budget on the CIA, we basically adopted a policy of allowing our Allies to gather intelligence for us. The problem with this is that you don't obtain the intelligence first hand. Because you depend on somebody else, the intelligence you receive may or may not be factual or presented in the correct light. What sometimes happens is that information obtained may be altered to fit a certain objective of the Allies who are conducting the interigations or, running the opperation.

    Honestly, I think this is a mistake. If you look at how the WOMD G2 came down from MI6, into our Governments hands, it kinda illustrates why this is not such a great method.
  6. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Standing in a room while someone else hooks a guy up to a car battery is just as good as hooking him up yourself.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    That's not the way this works. Standing in a room while torture is being conducted is not going to allow deniability. What's the difference between sponsering torture with full knowledge of it and just conducting a much less devisive form of it?

    This is about politics. It's not about how effective any given torture methodoligy might be.
  8. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    lol
    My guess is that they would be safer at Gitmo than most other places, without a doubt.
  9. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    I was just saying that it would be foolish to think that the US will have no involvement.
  10. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree 100%. I believe we will be neck deep in all of it and when what actually happens comes to light, it's going to be a very stark realization for some of the more Liberal members of our country. Having said that, we believed that the same kind of thing could happen back in the early 90s and it just didn't work. You see, if a certain objective is present, then what will happen is that the country who is in a position to aquire the info will conduct these sessions when we are not around. The information they report will be presented to us and it will be up to our Government to determin if it's true or not. It's pretty tricky business. At the end of the day, it's just not as good as our own people conducting the interigations.

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