Office Debate I had (stud DE or stud RB)

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Maikeru-sama, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. Maikeru-sama

    Maikeru-sama Mick Green 58

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    I had an interesting office debate with some other Cowboy fans the other day, and it had to do with surprise surprise, Mario Williams and Reggie Bush. My opinion was I had no problem with what the Texans did and another guy said they made a huge mistake.

    Anyway, the real debate came when we talked about what position was more valuable, RB or DE. We chose a player that we felt was probably the best at his position all time for RB and DE. We just said Walter Payton and Reggie White are sitting there in the Draft. Dont get too caught up in the names above, if you want just substitute someone who you think is the greatest RB and the greatest DE and figure who you would pick.

    I said I would go with Reggie White over Walter Payton. No disrespect to Mr. Payton, but I just value one of the Greatest DEs over one of the Greatest RBs ever. I would rather build my defense up and then work on my offense (of course I would get a QB first but after that mostly defense)

  2. baj1dallas

    baj1dallas New Member

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    Your priorities are all wrong, sportscenter highlights are way more important than winning.
  3. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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    So far it looks like the Texans messed up because Williams hasn't done anything. Then you add Davis getting hurt and it compounds it.

    When debating who you would pick you have to consider what the team needs most at the time. If your team already has Jim Brown why would you pick Payton.
  4. Chief

    Chief "Friggin Joke Monkey"

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    If the two players were of equal talent, I would pick the DE.

    But, IMO, Reggie Bush is at a different level than Mario Williams. A game-breaker like Bush doesn't come around very often and I think Houston blew it.
  5. stealth

    stealth Benched

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    for the texans bush would have been a better long term pick both for the team and for the revenue of the team. If i was the texans I would take bush. look at what reggie bush did for tickets sales in NO while I am very happy for that city it was short sighted for houston to pass on bush
  6. pancakeman

    pancakeman Well-Known Member

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    I agree. A DE can be disruptive on nearly every play that he's on the field. An RB's role is going to be big in very many, but I wouldn't say nearly all, plays that he's on the field. Plus, isn't a DE's career usually longer?
  7. Eddie

    Eddie Well-Known Member

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    I disagree ... I take the RB.

    Which position makes more of a difference?

    A top tier RB touches the ball 30-40 times, and is involved in almost all offensive plays.

    A top tier DE has 1 sack a game, 2 tackles, and is involved in a few plays a game.
  8. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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    But a player like Bush can be involved in every offensive play. He can lineup at wr or rb and pr.
  9. Sam I Am

    Sam I Am Unfriendly and Aloof!

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    I think the Texans went about it all wrong for a team in their situtation.

    I would have drafted Bush and tried to pull off a Herschel Walker type trade.

    Mario Williams will help the Texans when he matures. (He will help them this year) BUT!, Reggie Bush could have helped them more in his trade value.
  10. Yeagermeister

    Yeagermeister Active Member

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    No one will ever pull off another trade like that. If they had wanted to trade it should have been to trade down too get more picks.
  11. Sam I Am

    Sam I Am Unfriendly and Aloof!

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    I didn't say that would get a Herschel Walker trade, I said a Herschel Walker type trade. I would pull as much talent as I could get for Reggie Bush. Draft picks are far more of a gamble than trading for actual players. Unless you are going to give me a couple of #1s :)
  12. Bone

    Bone Member

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    Plain and simple the Texans choked. What did you expect from a Charlie Casserly draft? Any organization that trusts the wizardry of the man that drafted Desond Howard and Heath Shuler in the top 5 is asking for trouble. Williams isn't even the best pass rusher from his school drafted in the first round this year. Lawson is a better pass rusher. Williams will never be as good as even someone like Greg Ellis, plus they already had run stoppers on the roster. That' all Williams will ever be. They will end up pulling him on third downs for a pass rush specialist. They should have drafted Bush or traded down for a pure pass rusher if they were interested in holding serve with the Colts.

  13. aznhalf

    aznhalf New Member

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    But that doesn't count for all the pressures he'll get, some of them which would cause turnovers. Not to mention that you'll free up the rest of your d-line to do some damage. Look at R.Mathis in Indy. Double digit sack seasons and he is only in on passing downs. Freeney deserves a lot of the credit for that. A defensive end can really dominate the game by himself.

    I'm still in the school of thought that its pretty easy to plug in running backs. Its harder to find a special defensive end.
  14. Maikeru-sama

    Maikeru-sama Mick Green 58

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    I think I can take my chances by plugging in a solid 1-2 punch at runningback or at least have an average runner behind me.

    My Great DE is going to demand double teams, gonna put pressure on the quarterback, and allow me to get 1 on 1 matchups at other areas on my defensive line.

    I dont think you can just look at a player's line stats after a game because we all know that you have to watch the game to really see the impact. For instance, Ware may only come away with 1 Sack, but you will not be able to see the invisible stats, like hurrying the QB, demanding double teams, forcing the QB to get the ball out quicker, constant mental duress of the QB etc etc.

    Reggie White Or any other Great DE may have not gotten a Sack in a given game, but you better believe the QB, the Offensive Line and the Offensive Coordinator knew about him on every play.

    - Mike G.
  15. Chuck 54

    Chuck 54 Well-Known Member

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    If you are talking superstars, a guy like Payton or Emmitt or any franchise QB, or even Jerry Rice, is worth more than any top DL...period. It's not even up for discussion. A guy like Reggie White or Charles Haley, who puts pressure on QB's and makes sacks is the guy who gets you over the final hurdle of being a champion...but they can't make it happen. Guys like Aikman and Emmitt are worth far more than any DE.
  16. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    It still depends on what the team does at other positions and other drafts. They still have to develop talent elsewhere to get the most out of the team.

    You used the wrong White in your comparison to Walter Payton. There is a better more realistic comparison.

    Dallas drafted Randy White #2 overall while Chicago Drafted Payton #4 overall in the 1975 draft. Can anyone say that Dallas regretted drafting White over Payton? You can't really compare the two gys head to head because it is different positions. Both were great in the whole scheme of things. They both are in the HOF. Both impacted their teams. Dallas just did a better job of getting talent at other positions. White played in three Superbowls, winning 1 and shared the SB MVP. Payton played and won 1 Superbowl.

    Just how different would Dallas be if they drafted Payton. I think he would have been dynamic in Landry's offense, but how would they replace Randy White. The Cowboys got their dynamic runner in 1977 by trading up in the draft to get Tony Dorsett. If they already had Payton, who could they trade up for to get a dominating defensive tackle? I looked at the first two rounds of that 1977 draft and there was no one close to Randy White.

    One single move does not make a football team. Of course, Houston has made series of poor moves, so this one just comes across looking worse.
  17. Sam I Am

    Sam I Am Unfriendly and Aloof!

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    Well, my choice would depend on what I actually needed.

    If I had Marshal Faulk (1999), I would take the DE. If I had Michael Strahan (2001) and Reggie White (1987) on the otherside give me the running back.

    That was simple. :p:
  18. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    I see your point although a top tier back does not get the ball that much. Emmitt's top year he had 377 rushing attempts and 62 receptions. That is 439 touches for the season or 27.4 touches per game.
  19. Glenn Carano

    Glenn Carano New Member

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    The Texans passing on Bush is crazy, but I'm thinking conspiracy here. New Orleans is devastated by Hurricane Katrina, thinking of moving the team, not to mention that the whole area is trying to rebuild. Why wouldn't the NFL want Reggie Bush in New Orleans and not in Houston? Something was very fishy with the whole 1st pick this past year. Mario Williams was a shock to everyone when it was leaked out that he would go #1 the day before the draft. New Orleans has sold a ton of seats for thier home games this year, maybe even sold out. There's a deal done under the table between the NFL and the Texans and they still get a guy with talent and then let the Saints take Bush.
  20. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I'd take White. Only because it's so hard to find a great DE and the difference between a great DE and a pretty good is much larger than the difference between a great RB and a pretty good RB. Not to say that great RB's are not a major factor, just the ability to find a pass rusher is much more difficult, even moreso with White's ability to line up at DT, play in the 3-4 and stop the run.


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