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Officials say Fla., Mich. delegates will get half-votes

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by WoodysGirl, May 31, 2008.

  1. WoodysGirl

    WoodysGirl Do it for the Vine! Staff Member

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    By NEDRA PICKLER and BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writers
    7 minutes ago



    WASHINGTON - Democratic party officials said a party committee agreed Saturday on a compromise to seat Michigan and Florida delegates with half-votes after Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton failed to get enough support to force their positions through.

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    The deal was reached after committee members met privately for more than three hours, trying to hammer out a deal. The sticking point was Michigan, where Obama's name was not on the ballot.

    Clinton's camp insisted Obama shouldn't get any pledged delegates in Michigan since he chose not to put his name on the ballot, and she should get 73 pledged delegates with 55 uncommitted. Obama's team insisted the only fair solution was to split the pledged delegates in half between the two campaigns, with 64 each.

    The committee agreed on a compromise offered by the Michigan Democratic Party that would split the difference, allowing Clinton to take 69 delegates and Obama 59. Each delegate would get half a vote at the convention in Denver later this summer, according to the deal.

    They also agreed to seat the Florida delegation based on the outcome of the January primary, with 105 pledged delegates for Clinton and 67 for Obama, but with each delegate getting half a vote as a penalty.

    The deal would increase the number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination to 2,118. Overall, Obama would pick up 69 delegates, including superdelegates already committed to him. Clinton would pick up a total of 94.5.

    The deal still leaves Obama within striking distance of the nomination, needing 65 delegates to clinch it.

    THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic party officials said a party committee agreed Saturday on a compromise to seat Michigan and Florida delegates Saturday after Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton failed to get enough support to force their positions through.

    The committee agreed on a compromise offered by the Michigan Democratic Party that would give Clinton 69 delegates and Obama 59. Each delegate would get half a vote at the convention in Denver later this summer, according to the deal.

    They also agreed to seat the Florida delegation based on the outcome of the January primary, with 105 pledged delegates for Clinton and 67 for Obama, but with each delegate getting half a vote as a penalty.
  2. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I saw this earlier. If I was a democrat in Fla or Mich. I would be throwing a fit.

    So the whole, one man, one vote thing they were pitching a fit about before, is now, one man, 1/2 a vote.

    Man the dems can't even run their own primary yet they want to run this country. Why anyone would vote for one of these bafoons is beyond reason.
  3. gbrittain

    gbrittain Well-Known Member

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    It is funny that this time around we are not seeing words like "Disenfranchised", "every vote must count", "Steal" and so on and so forth.
  4. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Yeah! I wonder why?????
  5. WoodysGirl

    WoodysGirl Do it for the Vine! Staff Member

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    JMO, but I think folks would feel disenfranchised if NONE of their votes counted. This seems about as fair a compromise as they could make it.

    But truthfully, if there's any blame to be spread, they should blame their state democratic party for violating party rules. Those who voted did what they were supposed to do, but it was their party who didn't follow the rules therefore "disenfranchising" them.
  6. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    i don't think any compromise should have been made. they knew the rules. they knew the penalty, they did it. what's the point of rules and penalties if you're not going to stand behind what you say?
  7. WoodysGirl

    WoodysGirl Do it for the Vine! Staff Member

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    I actually agree with you. And maybe after the general election, the Dem party will assess a different penalty against those states.

    However, I understand the other side of the coin where they're trying to get these same voters to come back out in November for the general election. So if they're going to make any kind of compromise, this makes about as much sense as any.

    The beauty of it all is that neither candidate gained anything from the compromise. Hillary is still too far behind to have gained ground. And Obama still needs about the same number of delegates to win the nomination.
  8. Bizwah

    Bizwah Well-Known Member

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    Good post.
  9. yesfan

    yesfan Active Member

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    I agree.The one problem i have with Clinton,who just came out annoyed with
    this decision is that back in October when she said they wouldn't count and
    then said she expected it all to be over Feb.5th,once the tide turned all of the
    sudden she demands for the people's sake for all the votes to count.I will tell
    you this,if nothing else she IS a true politician.She was probably the real force
    behind Slick Willy.
  10. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    OF course the rules were changed on them so...
  11. gbrittain

    gbrittain Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it is fair or not. Maybe none of them should have been counted due to the rule violation or maybe citizens right to vote should trump the idiocy of what the state democratic party did. I honestly don't know the answer.

    I just see the hypocrisy of it all.
  12. WoodysGirl

    WoodysGirl Do it for the Vine! Staff Member

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    May 31, 2008, 6:47PM
    Democrats give Mich., Fla. delegates half-vote each
    During the raucous meeting, angry Clinton supporters announce they may appeal decision as Obama remains the front-runner in battle for nomination


    By BETH FOUHY and NEDRA PICKLER
    Associated Press

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    Dogged by controversy, Obama quits Chicago church
    More politics news and discussion WASHINGTON — Democratic Party officials agreed on Saturday to seat Michigan and Florida delegates with half-votes, ruling on a long-running dispute that has threatened the party's chances in November and maintaining Sen. Barack Obama's front-runner status as he moves closer to the nomination.

    The decision was a blow to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as she was on the verge of watching Obama make history as the first black Democratic presidential nominee. It prompted an irate reaction from boisterous Clinton supporters in the audience and her chief delegate counter, Harold Ickes.

    Ickes angrily informed the party's Rules Committee that Clinton had instructed him to reserve her right to appeal the matter to the Democrats' credentials committee, which could potentially drag the matter to the party's convention in August.

    "There's been a lot of talk about party unity — let's all come together, and put our arms around each other," said Ickes, who is also a member of the Rules Committee that approved the deal. "I submit to you ladies and gentlemen, hijacking four delegates ... is not a good way to start down the path of party unity."

    The resolution increased the number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination to 2,118, leaving Obama 66 delegates short but still within striking distance after the three final primaries are held in the next three days.

    The deal was reached after committee members met privately for more than three hours, trying to hammer out a deal, and announced in a raucous hearing that reflected deep divisions within the party.

    "How can you call yourselves Democrats if you don't count the vote?" one man in the audience shouted before being escorted out by security. "This is not the Democratic Party!"


    Michigan offered split
    The sticking point was Michigan, where Obama's name was not on the ballot.

    Clinton's camp insisted Obama shouldn't get any pledged delegates in Michigan since he chose not to put his name on the ballot, and she should get 73 pledged delegates with 55 uncommitted. Obama's team insisted the only fair solution was to split the pledged delegates in half between the two campaigns, with 64 each.

    The committee agreed on a compromise offered by the Michigan Democratic Party that would split the difference, allowing Clinton to take 69 delegates and Obama 59. Each delegate would get half a vote at the convention in Denver this summer, according to the deal.

    The deal passed 19-8. Thirteen members of the committee supported Clinton, so she wasn't even able to keep her supporters together.

    The committee also unanimously agreed to seat the Florida delegation based on the outcome of the January primary, with 105 pledged delegates for Clinton and 67 for Obama, but with each delegate getting half a vote as a penalty.

    Proponents of full seating continually interrupted the committee members as they explained their support of the compromise, then supporters of the deal shouted back.

    "Shut up!" one woman shouted at another.

    "You shut up!" the second woman shouted back.

    Jim Roosevelt, co-chairman of the committee, tried repeatedly to gavel it to order. "You are dishonoring your candidate when you disrupt the speakers," he scolded.

    Obama picked up a total of 32 delegates in Michigan, including superdelegates who have already committed, and 36 in Florida. Clinton picked up 38 in Michigan, including superdelegates, and 56.5 in Florida.

    Obama's total increased to 2,052, and Clinton had 1,877.5.

    A proposal favored by Clinton that would have fully seated the Florida delegation fully in accordance with the January primary went down with 12 votes in support and 15 against.

    Tina Flournoy, who led Clinton's efforts to seat both states' delegations with full voting power, said she was disappointed by the outcome but knew the Clinton position had "no chance" of passing the committee.

    "I understand the rules. ... I can tell you one thing that has driven these rules was being a party of inclusion," Flournoy said. "I wish my colleagues will vote differently."

    Alice Huffman, a Clinton supporter on the committee, explained that the compromise giving delegates half-votes was the next best thing to full seating.

    "We will leave here more united than we came," she said.

    Some audience members heckled her in response. "Lipstick on a pig!" one shouted.

    "We just blew the election!" a woman in the audience shouted. The crowd was divided between cheering Obama supporters and booing Clinton supporters.

    "This isn't unity! Count all the votes!" another audience member yelled.
  13. ZeroClub

    ZeroClub just trying to get better

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    I watched way too much C-Span today and saw the whole proceedings.

    I was very surprised by how persuasive Michigan Senator Carl Levin was as he explained why Michigan democrats decided to move up their primary against party rules.

    I had been firmly in the camp of blaming the whole Michigan mess on the Michigan party dems.... but Levin's full explanation, which lasted 10 to 15 minutes or so, I thought was persuasive. At least according to Levin, the national democratic party made numerous promises regarding the order of primaries that later weren't honored. I realize that he was only telling one side of the story, but I hadn't heard his side before, and it was compelling.
  14. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    No offense man, but the RNC halved their delegates as well...

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/rnc-strips-earl.html
  15. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    If you want a nice backdrop on the shenanigans:

    http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_.../scenes-from-today-s-rbc-hillary-protest.aspx

    Scenes From Today's RBC Hillary Protest

    Howard Dean may hope that the "healing will begin today," but two blocks away from the northwest Washington Marriott where the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee is meeting right now to try to figure out Florida and Michigan, the Hillary protesters are occupying an utterly alternate (and healing-free) universe: a universe in which one of the big lawn rally's speakers yells that the Democratic Party no longer is in the business of "promoting equality and fairness for all"; in which a Hillary supporter with two poodles shouts, "Howard Dean is a leftist freak!"; in which a man exhibits a sign that reads "At least slaves were counted as 3/5ths a Citizen" and shows Dean whipping handcuffed people; and in which Larry Sinclair, the Minnesota man who took to YouTube to allege that Barack Obama had oral sex with him in the back of a limousine in 1999, is one of the belles of the ball.

    "They almost made me cry this morning when they told me to get out of there," the blond Sinclair--who's looking roly-poly and giddy in a blue-and-white striped shirt with a pack of Marlboros protruding from the breast pocket--says, referring to several nervous protest organizers who tried to evict him when he first showed up at the rally site early this morning carrying a box of "Obama's DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS: Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex" fliers. Since then, though, he goes on, "I have been totally surprised by the reception I have received!"

    He's not kidding. Clusters of people in Hillary shirts ask to take their photo with him, one woman covered in Clinton buttons introduces him to Greta Van Susteren, and he estimates he has handed out 500 fliers. "You could improve your credibility if you downplayed the gay sex and focused on the drugs," sagely advises one Hillary supporter with auburn hair and elegant makeup. But in this universe, Sinclair's credibility doesn't seem to be suffering too much. In fact, he's treated nearly as well as he might be at a meeting of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy. In the thirty minutes I stand with him, only one woman expresses disgust at his fliers and his willingness to chattily discourse on whether Obama is "good in bed."

    Earlier, he claims, he even got to take a picture with Charlie Rangel. "I love him!" Sinclair chirps, though, it must be said, not as much as he loves Lanny Davis.

    Has it come to this? We tend to assume the Hillary camp's hot rhetoric--that Obama's less ready than McCain to be commander-in-chief, that the DNC in Florida is like Mugabe in Zimbabwe--is studied, purposeful, that they can't really believe it. That may be true at the Lanny Davis level, but by the time it trickles down to Hillary's most grassroots supporters, it becomes deadly serious.

    Of the eight Hillary supporters I quiz at the protest (six of them women), only one says she'd even consider voting for Obama in the fall. "It's sad. I'm a lifelong Democrat and the party's been taken over by these Obama people who say they want 'change,'" gripes Linda of Horseheads, New York, outside the Marriott as a honking car decorated with a painting of Hillary, a glued-on bust of Cleopatra, and a tampon drives by. Linda, she says, has already gone to the state Board of Elections to learn how to write Hillary's name in in November. "So much has been stolen from her."

    Justine, a self-described "diehard Democrat" from Greensboro, North Carolina, objects to the write-in idea. "It's gonna help Barack if you don't vote against him," she says. She and her friends got Sinclair to autograph their copies of the "Murder, Drugs, Gay Sex" flier. One of those friends, Jeannie, is living proof that, at least for some people, the long primary has done its damage. "When [Obama] first came out, we just thought he was too young," she explains. "But now I don't think he's qualified at all."

    It's easy to sink into despair here. Standing and watching all these Democrats chat up Sinclair--who's retained Montgomery Blair Sibley as his lawyer and says the Republican National Committee has also been in touch with him--makes me want to fall to my knees, rend my garments, and start insanely screaming, "Wake up! Wake up! You'll hate a President John McCain!" But the rhetoric from the top has imparted its poison below, and the bitterest criticisms of Obama gain traction as they circulate through the virulently-pro-Hillary echo chamber. "Would you rather have a president who had an affair [Bill Clinton] or one who was a murderer [Obama]?" Jeannie, the Greensboro Democrat, asks a fellow in a floppy Tilley hat and Hillary buttons. "That's a good point," he replies.

    Following instructions from Obama HQ, almost no Obama supporters have shown up to protest, amplifying the impression of the alternate Hillary universe. But around the edges, a few small signs of the other universe peek through, the one in which Barack Obama leads and most Democrats don't suspect him of multiple felonies. Inside the Marriott's gift shop, the sales clerk tells me that Democratic bumper stickers have been selling like crazy today. "Mostly Hillary?" I ask.

    "Actually, mostly Obama," she giggles.

    --Eve Fairbanks
  16. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    they get what they should never have gotten by breaking the rules, knowing the price to pay.

    if you can't respect the fundamental rules of the game, don't play. clinton and even the democrats making up the rules as they go is just flat ignorance. i'm sorry their voters won't have much of a say in this next election.

    then don't break the rules to put yourself in that position.

    and if you do, man up to it and pay the price for your decisions.

    there is no personal responsibility that i can see right now. we broke the rules we knew the price, screw penalties.

    i want what i want so i don't care about what's right, i want what i want.

    that mindset should be the furthest thing from power.

    wg - i get what you're saying but not being part of the vote is the price to pay for not following the rules. i regret their own actions have hurt them but i can't make it easier on them now or "give them a cookie" w/o discrediting what the entire pricess is about.

    now that they caved, what's to stop primaries from doing what they want next time? you know you'll never pay "full price" for breaking the rules.

    sometimes i feel you have to compromise. i think it's vital to success.

    i would never compromise with someone who broke the rules for their own gain and cried foul later.

    pay the price IN FULL for your mistakes THEN you can start again.

    anything else is a mockery of the system.
  17. DallasFanSince86

    DallasFanSince86 Pessimism Sucks

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    Exactly. :clap2:
  18. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I understand that. But when you add in all the crap that the dems have been putting themselves through along with this, they have proven they can't run this country. Let alone their own primary.
  19. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    :hammer:

    Hell yea!!!

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