Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by RS12, Apr 28, 2013.
Please don't ever mention Columbo in the same breath as Erik Williams....
I did not see Fred over-matched physically on any tape I watched... The only thing I saw was that he sometimes gets top heavy causing him to whiff in space, but not very often. Folks keep trying to claim he is unathletic, however, his agility drills and the tape say otherwise. I couldn't care less about his top end speed. I couldn't care more about his 3 cone and 20yd shuttle, which were fantastic...
Does this film come from the same vault that your D Murray analysis came from. :laugh2:
Room got way to much pressure up the middle bull rush style And on D Line stunts last year. It severely handicapped our ability to make a gamelan and be able to stick to it. We basically had romo on the sideline viewing photos 80% of the time.
Way to many adjustments had to be made in game. This changes all of that because of this pick. He's very very stout from the waist down and displays to me a perfect anchor. He's as smart as they come and will make every player on offense better day 1.
After losing out on centers 2 years in a row in the draft this was a top priority. How much longer can a team wait?
Anyone worried about a 40 yard dash on a lineman is either lost about football or just begging to get laughed at.
lol you guys won't let the Murray pick go but i've hit on far more picks than i've missed.
BTW my evaluation of Murray was that he runs high, doesn't have a lot of moves, and get's hurt a lot.
What never showed up on film with him at Oklahoma was the type of power back that he would become in the NFL because he still runs high, doesn't have many moves, and gets hurt a lot.
Heck people on here thought he was going to be a slot receiver.
So, yes, I missed on Murray but there was nothing from his time @ OU that would lead me to believe that he was going to be running guys over @ the next level.
Gee,.........I wonder how the slow footed unathletic Frederick managed to do this....
20 Yard Shuttle-
Travis Frederick 4.76
Jonathan Cooper 4.84
Menelik Watson 5.01
Larry Warford 5.10
3 Cone Drill-
Jonathan Cooper 7.78
Travis Frederick 7.81
Kyle Long 7.83
Menelik Watson 8.31
In the 20 yard shuttle he was BETTER than the all world athlete Cooper.
In three cone he was a whopping 3 TENTHS of a second slower.
You do realize of coarse that both of these drills ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT to testing an O lineman then a 40 YARD dash is? RIGHT??
Some of you guys are just plain " GOOFY" in your criticism. WHAT? Is Cooper slow footed and unathletic now? He must be according to you guys because FACT of the matter is,....Frederick timed out BETTER.
Cant wait until he makes some of you look plain silly this season .
When you watch Frederick play, yes, he is very slow footed.
When you watch Cooper play, no, he is not slow footed.
Maybe they can touch cones @ equal speed but they don't play the game @ equal speed.
Supposedly our new TE is the opposite. He ran a slow 40 but plays like a 4.5 guy.
Time will tell. I am confident that in the end we wound up with a helluva starting center.
BTW,.....Ive watched EVERY single snap Frederick has played in his college career. Trust me,....he will be MORE than fine. Im more than willing to let things play out in camp and as the season progresses. By VERY early in the year there is going to be an aweful lot of people eating bigtime crow when it comes to Frederick.
Im a plain talker so I will just say it the way it is.......
People thought we had a pretty good center when Gurode was in his prime. Fact of the matter is,.....Frederick is stronger RIGHT NOW, before he even steps foot in the NFL then Gurode was in his prime. As good or better movement skills too.
And another thing.........Frederick sure wont need some GUARD to make the line calls for him because he isnt capable of doing it himself like Gurode did.
Seed I dont think many people here feel like Frederick wont be a player and a huge improvement. I just think that alot of people dont like the way the whole thing unfolded. If Frederick was taken at 47 or 80, most would be doing back flips over getting him.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I think he could be a solid player and thats what I would bet on so please don't say a few years from now that I was saying he was going to be a bust.
I just think he was terrible value for the type of player he is.
He's a late 2nd rounder @ the very best imo.
Perhaps and you have every right to believe that, according to most drafts. But when guys such as Pugh and Long go back to back... I believe his stock goes from late 2nd to early 2nd because of how the draft was going. I think that's fair to say and it was something the Cowboys needed to do.
Oh I know. Dont get me wrong if I sounded a bit like a jerk. I guess Im a little P O'd at the CONSTANT bashing we get from the media . Its gets old. My anger is wayyyy more directed at THEM than anyone in here.
Besides,....Im getting a few little tidbits in here and there lately that I HOPE are made public soon. Im hearing that Detroit was all set to grab Frederick at the top of the second with pick 34, or was it pick 36. Anyway,...that means that NO, we couldnt have gotten Travis with our second round pick.
Phil Costa is a better athlete than all of them.
It's funny how the raw numbers are used to be the deciding factor....yet their actual play on tape doesn't seem to mean as much.
Here is Costa's numbers compared to Cooper and Warmack coming out of college.
Costa - 6' 2.5", 308 lbs
*10 yd 1.6
20 yd 3.09
40 yd 5.12
225 reps - 30
*Vertical - 35"
*Broad jump - 9'4"
*20 yd shuttle - 4.65
*Three cone - 7.66
Cooper - 6'2.1", 311 lbs
10 yd - 1.72
*20 yd - 2.89
*40 yd - 5.06
*225 reps - 35
Vertical - 27"
Broad jump - 9'
20 yd shuttle - 4.84
Three cone - 7.78
Warmack - 6'2", 317
10 yd - 1.9
20 yd - 3.2
40 yd - 5.49
225 reps - N/A
Vertical - N/A
Broad jump - 9'2"
20 yd shuttle - 5.01
Three cone - 7.93
If nothing else, the numbers show that Costa has the athletic ability to play guard if needed
the problem is i dont think hes around at 47 the way lineman were falling off the board. i mean who the hell though pugh and long were going mid first?
so if fredrick was the best lineman left on the board left to get him and TWilliams with additional pick is win period.
Someone posted a game clip of just the offense for Wisconsin....and pointed out one play where Frederick got beat off the snap by a DT....and completely disregarded the 95% of the tape where Frederick was just killing his opponent. That is the problem with most of the people posting. They already have chosen their side before they look at the film and then try to find justification.
It's like when jobber was reviewing the game tape of Free. He was expecting it to be awful from beginning to end, yet was surprised to find out it really wasn't as bad as we think it was. He did it with an open mind.
and stats lie- just like Samuel Clemens said
Costa could not carry Coopers shoes
everyone trying to argue that ignored what was going on during the first round.
As usual facts trump opinion.
The guys both were tested under the same circumstances without bias, yet you want to ignore one guy's numbers. Why is that? Oh, because you are letting your personal bias even get to the point where you dispute facts because they don't fit your agenda.
And for the record, these aren't stats...they are measurements.
Can you tell me how the measurements lie? That Costa didn't really put the bar up 30 times, or have a better vertical and broad jump? The running numbers, sure, there can be some questioning unless everything was done on the exact same day, exact same conditions, exact some timing equipment...but it's obvious when all the numbers are looked at you are looking at two pretty amazingly athletic big men.