Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by HoustonFrog, Apr 18, 2013.
By many people on this forum...yes, he did.
and Belliceks record in the SB since Weis and Crennel left: 0-2
and what has Bellicek won since Weis and Crennel left?
The 1995 Browns went 5-11.
It can be a fact. It can also be pretty damn meaningless.
That's true. In the 8 years since those guys left, Belichick has won an abysmal 8 playoff games, including 2 conference championships (stats most HC's would kill for).
Here's the key difference you seem not to realize: Belichick without Parcells has won 3 Super Bowls and 5 AFC championships while Parcells has won squat. But unlike Belichick, Crennel and Weis were abysmal failures once they were out on their own, so it's pretty tough to make the argument that they were the brains behind the face.
Nice try, though!
2 conference championships and 8 playoffs games. There's probably no more than 1 or 2 HC's that can make that same claim over the past 8 years.
8 playoffs victories in 8 years is a bit better than 0 in 7 years, wouldn't you agree? Awful lot of guys have won 0.
So did the 2000 Patriots. I've never claimed the guy never had any down years. I'm just saying that in 7 years of being an HC without Bill Belichick, Bill Parcells never won a single playoff game.
You can play that game with little Bill too. He was a losing coach before Tom Brady. Got fired in Cleveland. Was mediocre in New England until the all timer came along.
I'll take Parcells over him. He can show up anywhere and turn around any team regardless of the cast of characters he's got to work with. At any age, too. All Belichick was proven is he can win big with arguably the greatest QB ever to play the game.
Oh, and study Tom Landry's career. I'm pretty sure you can do the never won anything without this assistant thing for him too.
It's about an agenda.
You show me a great coach and I'll show you some great players.
And all Parcells has done is show he can win with the greatest defensive player ever to play the game - not to mention a future Hall of Fame coach working for him.
Bill Belichick without Bill Parcells: 3 Super Bowl Championships, 5 Conference Championships.
Bill Parcells without Bill Belichick: 55-57 career record, 0 playoff wins in 7 years.
I'd take Parcells over Belichick any day.
One guy desecrated the game by blatantly breaking the rules despite recently being reminded that it was against the rules. Then he lied each and every step of the way after getting caught. First saying that they didn't do it. Then saying they only did it a little bit. Then saying that they only did it against the opposing team's defense. And also never acknowledging the accusations by other teams that they were messing with their radio signals.
Once one of the main helpers in cheating came forward, they looked to ruin his career. And saying that he 'couldn't pick him out of a lineup', even though he was standing next to him in 3 different yearly team photos.
The other guy didn't desecrate the game and greatly helped increase the popularity of the league in the 1980's. Not to mention, the other head coach has won with Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Drew Bledsoe and Vinny Testeverde as his QB's. The other hasn't won squat without Tom Brady.
But rarely has there ever been a great coach who has a clear line of demarcation in his career revolving around just one specific individual player.
The Pats scored 12 points and gained 268 yards that game in 2003. Dallas turned the ball over 3 times and the Pats turned it over once.
The Panthers scored 20 points and gained 244 yards in the regular season of 2003. A couple of gift pass interference calls set up some easy scores for the Panthers.
The Panthers did have an offensive explosion in the playoffs. Newman decided to play like a rookie that day and the defense as a whole played poorly.
The 2003 defense was a good one. It wasn't great and certainly had some holes that needed to be improved, but it was good. Most notably they needed a better rush end opposite of Ellis, a better corner back opposite of Newman, a better defensive tackle to play alongside of LaRoi Glover and depth at every position.
The problem in 2004 was not only did they not improve those obvious weak points, they actually got worse at those positions. And to make matters worse they loss Darren Woodson to injury.
Bill Walsh and Joe Montana say hi. And so do Chuck Noll and Terry Bradshaw.
Kinda funny how I just named 2 of the greatest dynasties of the Super Bowl era, huh?
As the old saying goes: You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts.
Please educate yourself as to what actually happened and I'll be happy to further discuss the matter with you. I cannot, however, discuss the matter with someone who has no clue what happened.
The fact is you just don't like to hear the facts.
I have read 'SpyGate: The Untold Story' book and poured thru numerous newspaper and magazine articles with regards to the subject. I've also talked with associates of mine that work for different teams around the league and some with FOX Sports and ESPN. Most of them are not happy with what the Patriots did, felt that they got away with cheating and hurt the integrity of the game.
If you really wanted to talk about the case and where I'm 'wrong', you would have. But, you would just be misrepresenting the actual facts of the case and having to debate the merits of cheating all the while putting your Patriots pom-poms on.
He cheated. He lied. Then he lied some more. And then when he was repeatedly questioned on the matter...he kept lying until he ran of story thread to lie about. Goodell covered it up because it was a black eye on the integrity of the game and well...in general he's a boob who will ruin the games popularity in about 10 years.
Oh, and he was fined by Goodell....only to receive a raise for an undisclosed amount about 3 weeks after he was fined (aka Kraft covering his fine for him).
Few comments about this:
1) Parcells was a coach who over three decades left each team he coached for better than he found it, with different coaches and players. That is unarguable results. He had warts, as every single great has had, but he is a very remarkable person to have been involved with the NFL. Any argument about this is asinine.
2) Whether his success is to be attributed to Belichek is also asinine. 100% it's attributable to Belichek. And Belichek may never have gotten where he did without Parcells. Or Brady. And Tom Brady wouldn't have been drafted if not for the QB coach of NE in 1999. And Peyton Manning didn't win a Super Bowl without Marvin Harrison. And Landry didn't win one without Staubach. And so on and so on. There is not a single person in all the NFL who didn't achieve greatness without talent around them. Even if it's true that Parcells never won something without Belichek, good for him for working so long WITH Belichek. To me that's just another great eye for talent and a testament to Parcells.
3) thanks for the suggestion on the above book, Yakuza. I know little about spyware but that piques my interest. One thing I do agree with, Goodell is an absolutely horrible commissioner for the NFL.