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Parcells vs. Landry vs. Johnson

Discussion in 'History Zone' started by fortdick, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    To me, there is no comparison between Tom Landry and the other two, but a lot can be said for Jimmuh's tenure. I was reading the thread about Parcell's having to produce this year and thought I would seek opinions on the three HOF coaches in Cowboy history (I know JJ isn't ther yet, but he will/should be!)

    Ranked based on my observations and opinion while watching the Boys for the past 45 years.

    Offense

    Jimmuh
    Landry
    Parcells

    Defense

    Landry
    Jimmuh
    Parcells

    Leadership

    Landry
    Jimmuh
    Parcells

    Handling Media

    Parcells
    Landry
    Jimmuh

    Motivating Players

    Landry
    Jimmuh
    Parcells

    Developing players

    Jimmuh (by a hair)
    Landry
    Parcells

    Developing assistant coaches

    Landry
    Parcells
    Jimmuh

    Innovation

    Landry
    Jimmuh
    Parcells

    Scouting

    Jimmuh (again, barely)
    Landry
    Parcells

    Intangibles

    Landry
    Jimmuh
    Parcells

    I think without a doubt, Tom Landry will be the epitome of a coach for any true Boys fan. Jimmuh was here for a short time and won two (actually three) superbowls, but he had some real luck with the Walker trade. Parcells has not proven himself to be in the same ball park since his return to coaching, but has the opportunity to prove something this year.

    I think that either Landry or Jimmuh could go deep into the playoffs with the team the Boys have this year. What Parcells does with this same team will determine if he can be included with the two great coaches from the past.
  2. lspain1

    lspain1 Active Member

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    Well, perhaps some of your ratings could be argued, but I draw the following conclusion:

    If you take the number of years the Cowboys, in their existence, have been led by a HOF head coach we should feel very blessed indeed.
  3. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    I am interested in those rankings that could be argued. And yes, we have been blessed. We are blessed to be Cowboys fans. Kinda like being enlightened amongst the heathens.

    Seriously, I am interested in opinions that differ. Just don't call me names!:)
  4. NorTex

    NorTex Member

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    Well, if you're going to give Jimmy credit for the third Superbowl, why not give Parcells credit for anything good that comes after he leaves?

    Strange comparison....Landry coached the Cowboys for so long that its unfair to compare him to other Cowboys coaches.

    However, if you take each of the coaches' coaching careers then I'd put Landry and Parcells at the very top with Jimmy lagging way behind(see Miami Dolphins results with Jimmy as their coach).

    But when you consider the success Parcells has had on 4 different teams (taking 4 losers and getting them into the playoffs), it shows just how great a coach Parcells is...he is in a class all by himself, IMO.
  5. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do give Jimmuh dredit for the thrid win. He built the team and the system. Switzer just had to drive the bus. And I do consider Parcells a HOF coach. But I do not consider Parcells to be in a league by himself. Landry took an expansion team into contention in record fashion (this is back when expansion teams had to build from scratch). Landry went to the SB five times. He redefined defense with the 4-3/flex.

    If your arguement that Parcells made winners out of losers was the only criteria, then Joe Gibbs is the best ever. But we know that not to be true.

    Parcells vs. Johnson can be argued, but not Landry vs. Parcells!
  6. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Parcells has to do something in Dallas first. Looks like Parcells only success in Dallas has come with Dave Campo's players. Now Parcells has reloaded with "his guys". Let's see what happens now. :p:
  7. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    I would move Parcells to the top in scouting and developing players. And I'd would put Jimmy last of the three in both categories - not that he was bad by any stretch, but Parcells has built 2 franchises before this one from scratch and is hopefully on the verge of his third. Jimmy didn't do overly well at all in this regard in Miami, and had the luxery of the Walker trade here in Dallas.

    Also, its tough to compare Landry and the other guys in player development. Landry had the luxery of stashing a guy away on the roster for a few years to let him develop, Jimmy and Bill have/had a much tougher environment.

    Player motivation? Jimmy was good, but Parcells is considered a legend in this regard by just about everyone. Gotta bump him up there. Same with Leadership, Parcells still has players he coached 20 years ago who would run through walls for him, I don't see Troy Emitt and Irvin hanging out with Jimmy very much. Landry undoubted leader there though.

    Offense I would move Landry ahead of Jimmy. The JJ offense was driven by pure star power, not anything fancy or overly innovative offensively.

    Most of the rest I agree with.
  8. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Scouting and Development has to go to Landry. The sheer number of undrafted free agents that went on to become stars under Landry gives him an edge over either Jimmy or Bill.
  9. lspain1

    lspain1 Active Member

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    OK, I'll bite on a couple for the sake of argument.

    I'll wait on the name calling for when you disagree with my enlightened (and modest) opinions. :)

    Intangibles: This is a very situational thing. Landry had some downers with intangibles during his career. The year 1970 with Duane Thomas is an example of a bad year for intangibles under Landry. Jimmy clearly had good intangibles with players but I think Parcells actually does better overall in the 'respect' department. It might even be said that Parcells handles Jerry Jones better than Jimmy. :eek: Of, course it just might be that Jerry has 'grown up' a bit as well.

    Developing Assistant Coaches: Clearly Landry and Parcells have done well in this department, but Jimmy was no slouch in this either. If you take a look at the raw numbers of assistant coaches that went on to become HC's (not necessarily successful), Jimmy had a bunch in a shorter pro career span. (I'm too lazy to go count them up so this an 'anecdotal' argument).

    Developing Players: You are just SOOOO wrong on this one fortdick. Landry was so much better it isn't even close. Let me list just a few players (Lilly, Meredith, Perkins, Howley, Renfro, Staubach, Jordan, Dorsett, White, Hayes, Harris, White). These just happen to be the players on the Ring of Honor. Who developed them?

    Scouting: It's hard to evaluate the coaches here because each of them had to operate in an NFL that was so different. I'll give the nod to Parcells here because the combination of the salary cap, draft, and free agency make it so much more difficult to build a winner.
  10. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    Its tough to grade because Landry could afford to sit a really raw talent for a few years until he was ready.

    Neither Bill nor JJ had that opportunity.

    But the more I think about it the more I'm starting to agree.
  11. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    None of Jimmy's have gone on to win anything however. In fact most have failed as HCs.

    I don't think you can judge by how many become HCs, there will always be someone who will hire an assistant from a team that won 2 Superbowls. I think you have to judge them by how successfull they were.
  12. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    Thx for the enlightened response! :)

    Intangilbels are just that, intangible. I guess one could say subjective. I gave it to Landry just because of all the last minute miracles Stabauch pulled off. Maybe Roger was a lot of Landry's legend, but it seems that Landry's team just managed to get it done when they had to.

    Developing coaches:Jimmuh just wasn't around long enough to have the resume' of Landry and Parcells. Campo comes to mind too regularly.

    As far as developing players, Jimmuh turned the franchise around so fast, you could get whiplash! He took a 1-15 team to the SB in four year. He built that team with the Walker trade, sure, but he had to really be a great teacher to turn it around so fast. Landry did have time and easier conditions is the only reason I gave it to Jimmuh.

    I gave acouting to Jimmuh for the same reasons. He turned it around so fast based upon his ability to judge talent. Picking Emmit Smith was maybe a no brainer, but I thought picking Reggie Bush was a no brainer too. We won;t even talk about Ellis and Moss. Not today!

    Motivating players has to go to Landry. Parcells has some guys that would walk through fire for him, but Landry had guys that did walk through fire. I personally don;t like the way Parcells demeans his players. His handling of Henson is regretable. If you don;t like him, get rid of him, but don;t destroy his confidence. That style may work for some people but not all. Parcells seems to one dimesionable to me.

    I guess now the name calling starts? :)
  13. The30YardSlant

    The30YardSlant Benched

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    JJ was not a defensive coach in the least. Dave Wanstedt made that defense great, not Johnson
  14. fortdick

    fortdick Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but JJ had to say, "That sounds great Dave, go ahead and do it!" Doesn't that make him a good coach? I would agree on Parcells except the 3-4 hasn't been as productive as the 4-3 was under Landry and JJ. Maybe this year i get proved wrong, but the year Parcells was #1 in defense he was in the 4-3.
  15. Hoov

    Hoov Senior Member

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    Im not as old as some to remember all the glory days under landry but i did get to see several years of the cowboys under his leadership.

    I think Landry was tops as a game day coach, i didnt see that in you category though so just thought i would add that dimension.

    and it does seem jimmy hit the windfall with the walker trade, he really came to dallas at the right time.

    I would have to say landry, parcells and then jimmy as far as quality of coaching.

    landry seemed to be good at developing players and i beleive parcells is too. and one thing in common between those two, taking an intrest in the person as a whole, not just football skills but talking to players about other aspects of their lives, in essence coaching them about life as well as football.

    i would not say jimmy really has that. i also think jimmy seemed to defer quite a bit of responsibility to his assistant coaches. i thought of him more like the owner of a contracting company or business guy that takes charge and yells at everyone to get better results. the guy who can pull everyone together and motivate, more of a manager but not so much a teacher.
  16. The30YardSlant

    The30YardSlant Benched

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    No, it means he didnt know jack about defense and let Dave do what he wished. Good strategy as far as I'm concerned.

    And Landry's flex defense would get picked apart in today's NFL, so its not fair to compare them.
  17. CoCo

    CoCo Well-Known Member

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    Truly interesting debate on many fronts.

    Each had a tenure here that was unique from the other which makes comparisons even harder.

    Lastly, I just cannot believe the people that think Parcells should be on thin ice for his performance here. I think these same people never would have had the patience to stay with Landry all those years. For many years the Cowboys had the rap of not being able to win the big one. Had Al Gore been born just a bit earlier I dare say there would have been many here calling for Landry's scalp even while we were winning. There were many big game losses. Some of them blow outs. Obviously, in retrospect it did NOt mean Landry couldn't coach. It just meant he wasn't all-powerful. Duh, no HC is. And none of these guys are without flaw either.

    I just can't imagine from a franchise that wrote the book on the benefits of longevity & consistency that some would advocate firing a HC here who has obviously proven himself many times over in this league. Yes he has flaws. So does EVERY other HC. There truly isn't a HC alive who would satisfy these folks. Its as if there are 10 easy steps to building a SB winner and since BP hasn't done it in 3 years we should be able to easily find someone who can follow those steps. Every other solid organization is doing it right?
  18. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy also had the advantage of just coming out of college and still being very familiar with the NCAA talent pool. When he got further away from it in Miami he didn't fare as well.

    Landry and Parcells both scouted and developed players spanning decades. I don't even put Jimmy in the same area code as those two. Again, not necessarily because Jimmy was bad, but Bill and Landry are two of the best the league has ever seen, especially taking longevity into account.
  19. CrazyCowboy

    CrazyCowboy Well-Known Member

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    What about Switzer? He won a championship!
  20. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    You have to be kidding me...

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