Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by InmanRoshi, Apr 26, 2012.
Well, exactly. Common sense would tend to push you in that direction.
I think there is a lot of input between the coach and the scout before picks are made and a consensus is formed leading up to the draft. In the end though Jerry hires these coaches and he hires these scouts so good or bad it is Jerry who ultimately has to take responsibility.
Which goes back to a point I have made many time about picking and choosing who credit or blame on any player picked. For someone to claim any good player well that is the coaches and pick of any bad player that is Jerry pick is laughable fact it good and bad falls on Jerry
jump up and get Barron at 11 if he is there, no reason to sit a wait and watch another team take your guy at 11,12, or 13.
I agree that S and CB are needs to be filled, I just don't think it's as high of a priority as getting a pocket collapsing disruptor on the DLine...if you have that the QB don't really have time to get the ball that far downfield and you can go with a little lesser talent at that point if you have the disruptor to help Ware out and keep the QB on the run.
There's no spinning going on.
King stated some simple facts. Jerry is the final decision maker here.
Anyone who denies that fact has an agenda. He's stated it himself numerous times. It's a straight up lie to claim that he's not.
It's not interesting, we already knew everything King said. I don't recall anyone claiming that Jerry never listened to his scouts, we know he does that.
But its obviously better to have a final decision maker who is a football expert, which Jerry isn't.
Reminds me of that Gil Brandt once said. If you like a guy a lot then you go get him. Barron has not been one of my mock picks but if the scouts and coaches feel that strong about him and you need to move 3 spots to do it then make it happen.
This reminds me of something that has always bothered me. I am not saying Jerry is good or bad because he's both. However, I have never understood why Jerry doesn't at least get credit for his experience. He's been GM since he bought the team so I would say he does have a background in talent acquistion today. One can argue his effectiveness but he's had to learn something about the process in his time as GM, no? I agree that being owner and GM is not the best way to go and having someone who is only the GM would be preferrable. However I have not subscribed to the "football guy" or "background/experience" argument.
Sure when a consensus is not reached Jerry is the tie breaking vote. Much of the time there is agreement and a tie breaking vote is not needed but on occasions where a consensus can't be reach Jerry will cast the vote.
You don't have to like it but it is the way it is but Jerry is not just running about making picks on his own
The Steelers went 16 years in between participating in a Superbowl. It took them an additional 11 years to win it again, for a grand total of 27 years in between their 4th and 5th SB victories. They've won 2 and gone to 3 over the past 6 years. That after winning 4 in 10 years during the 70's, while winning NO Championship in the previous 30 years before that. All of them under basically the same ownership and pretty much the same organizational structure.
The SF 49ers haven't been to a SB since Eddie Debartolo owned them. Their only 5 NFL championships, all within a 15 years span, in their 60+ years came under his watch. Was he the reason ?
It took the Green Bay Packers nearly 30 years in between Superbowl appearances, then another 12 years after that for the next one and a grand total of 44 years in between SB victories. The team is publicly owned.
The NY Giants took 10 years in between SB appearances, 18 years in between SB victories, all under the same ownership and organizational structure.
Here's the breaking news from all of that:
Winning, or even participating in, the Superbowl is NOT easy, there is NO blue print for it, and no ONE person is responsible for it ( or preventing it from happening ).
Over the past 48 hours there was a very well respected SB winning general manager, a very well respected SB winning heachcoach, and now a respected national writer stating the same thing about Jerry Jones, directly and indirectly.
But of course, the ones with their heads in the sand are those of us who chose to see REALITY as oppossed to believe some made up story that neatly fits personal agendas.
I believe he's more than that.
I don't think he always overrules his scouts or anything. But I think he does more than just tiebreak.
But even if that's all he did, I'd rather a real football man breaking those ties. He's still the Final Decision Maker. Like I said, he's said it himself. No decision is made from the socks to the jocks without his final stamp of approval.
That means that his influence permeates the organization. There is no way his tendencies and preferences aren't manifested in our moves. It's impossible.
I'm not claiming that he is running around making picks on his own.
But I still don't like what the arrangement is. We are shorthanded by not having a legit football man. A Ron Wolf, a Jerry Reese, a Thomas Dimitroff, etc.
I agree. But I will say that if we trade up in R1 and it costs #81, then we should look to trade back from #45 in all likelihood. I don't think picking twice in the 1st 50 then nothing else till 113 will work out well. You need 2 eventual good players and some role players in each draft, I think we maximize our chances of that by taking 2 swings rather than 1 higher priced swing.
Ron Wolf = As a general manager he has 1 SB victory, 1 SB defeat in 9 years. Before that the only other time he was a GM it was in Tampa in the late 70's. He's been an assistant or " consultant " everywhere else he's worked ( including Dallas, by the way ).
Jerry Reese = Took over a Superbowl winning team built mostly under Ernie Accorsi's tenure in 2007. To his credit, he's done a great job not screwing it up and parlaying it into another SB victory. Let's see how long he'll be able to keep up the " good job ".
Thomas Dimitroff ? Really ? Exactly what has he done as a GM ?
This is the same ol' story of fans regurgitating same ol' stuff that has been said countless times. Substitute the names of " Ron Wolf " for " Jimmy Johnson ", Jerry Reese for " Scott Pioli ", and Dimitroff for, well, just about any name that has been thrown out there by BSPN over the years as the " next hot thing " ( I still remember that great GM from Pittsburgh named Tom Donahue ) and it's still the same crap that does not mean a damn thing.
I agree. I have seen guys who at one time were considered great GM and later considered hacks. Bottom line when a team does not win someone has to take the heat and that person is the GM. Dallas has not had the success fans expect and Jerry as the GM has to take the responsiblity and the heat for it.
Our GM hasn't been able to construct a consistent playoff winner in 15 years. Whether that's because he's made bad decisions "breaking ties" or whatever you want to call it, or whether he's hired bad scouts and coaches, or whether he actually picks bad players (and the truth is, it's a combination of the three), no matter what, his personal performance is lacking.
You can't say "But we have a talented roster, the GM did his job."
No, he didn't. Our roster isn't that talented. It can't win more than 1 wild card playoff game in 15 years. And even since he apparently "learned his lessons" and hired Parcells and then has been doing "better" since then, the same results apply. One playoff win.
So somebody isn't doing a good enough job. And it's the GM. If it's the players fault, the GM picked the players. If it's the coaches, the GM picked the coaches. If it's the scouts, the GM picked the scouts. If someone else is picking the players, the GM picked the guy who is picking the players. THERE IS NO WAY TO ESCAPE CULPABILITY HERE. It's on the GM, end of story. He has to get the guys in places to succeed and he hasn't. In 15 years.
There are very few other teams who experienced that kind of draught. So don't roll your eyes and say "What has Jerry Reese or Thomas Dimitroff done?"
The answer is, lots more than our GM.
We haven't won a damn thing in 15 years.
We need someone steering this franchise who knows how to build a team that can win. If Jerry can't find the right scouts and coaches to do that, then he needs to hire someone that does.
Yeah, a mere 2 Superbowl appearances in 9 years .. psssshh.
Well, by what you just said, they have at least 15 years of experience, and it's probably closer to 20.
OK then buy the team. My hope is that with Ciskowski and Garrett will be those guys who can provide the Cowboys that success. Hollering about Jerry is not going to change anything. I do think the key is finding the right people.
I'm not in to beating a dead horse Jerry is the owner it is what it is like it or not
I'm shocked that the NFL is not a true meritocracy given that it is largely run by people with the last name of Rooney, Mara, Hunt, Brown, Johnson and Kraft.
Well, that's true.
But I'm just telling it how it is.
There is plenty of dead time in the off-season to bash Jerry. It's the draft people!