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Peter King on KTCK

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by InmanRoshi, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I have never taken the responsiblity from Jerry if the Cowboys do something I don't agree with I say so if they do something I like I say so. I just don't play the game of this player turned out great so that was the coach or this player failed that was Jerry. To me that is the biggest joke here.

    I also think this team can win but it comes down to having the people in place. As Jimmy Johnson said Jerry does not interfer as much as they think. I think Jerry is willing to do what those around him advise but in the end he hires these people their failure is Jerry failure and their success is Jerry success.
  2. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    I guess I don't give him credit for that because I don't think he's ever actually worked at it. By that, I mean I don't think he's spent a lot of time watching film, going on the road or actually working underneath someone that could mentor him in that process.

    If you install yourself as GM, without having taken those steps along the way to gain that experience, you'll do things your own way and you'll never really learn the basics.

    So, yes, he's been a GM for a long time. But has he ever gone out on the road to a Pro Day or do a game to do any scouting? There are GMs in the league now that still do that.
  3. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Jerry has gone to those event.
  4. DallasInDC

    DallasInDC Active Member

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    The one thing that I hear often from the GM JJ detractors is that need a real football man to be GM. This statement often baffles me since GM experience is a culmination of real life experience as opposed to some type of training or degree program. Given the fact that Jerry has over 20 years of real life experience as an NFL GM I don't see how one can say he is not an NFL man. you can argue whether or not you think he is a good GM but would be hard pressed to make an argument that he doesn't have the necessary experience to do the job effectively.
  5. DallasInDC

    DallasInDC Active Member

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    I didn't see your post before I sent mine. but it is good to see I am not the only one who sees the fallacy with this argument.
  6. SilverStarCowboy

    SilverStarCowboy The Actualist

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    And we've learned the hard way on Draft Day before.
  7. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_Steelers_seasons

    Research more. Since the 70s, the longest Pitt has gone without a playoff win was 5 years.

    Compare that to this
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dallas_Cowboys_seasons

    Pay particular attention to that section titled "Postseason Results"

    I'd say that organizational structure works. But, guess what? They've also changed GMs in that time period too.

    I agree that you shouldn't be completely static and stagnant. Change in your front office is good.

    An all timer of a head coach who was an incredible drafter? Same story as Dallas in the 90s.

    We can talk about what teams do wrong or what they do right. Look at GB and NY now. Compare their recent performance to Dallas. They made changes and brought in qualified football people.

    I absolutely agree it is hard. But why handicap yourself by having someone unqualified making the decisions?

    Yes, one person can be responsible for preventing it.....if he is unqualified and he is making final decisions.

    What made up story? The national writer said Jerry makes the final decisions. Sure, he gets input. But how does he know if he is getting good input? He can't because he isn't a qualified personnel guy.

    So, you end up with Jerry listening to a bunch of people and making a decision. You hit some, you miss more and you don't win playoff games.

    So, change it. Other good teams have. Dallas isn't.
  8. CIWhitefish

    CIWhitefish Member

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    Great minds and all that...people like to lump everything together rather then parse out their real objections. If you think Jerry is a terrible GM you can make an argument (though it isn't ever changing) but you tread in questionable waters saying he has no experience or doesn't know football.
  9. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    And he does..

    The problem is separating the myth from reality. " We need a football man " is a complete load of bull.. myth. Which " football man " is going to teach Tom Ciscowski something he doesn't already know ? Which " football man " is going to tell Jason Garrett " MY opinion is better than yours " ?

    Some people in here live in a fantasy world where all this football players walk around with signs that read " boom " and " busts " and that only a " football man " knows how to tell the difference between them. Then they start naming names they hear on TV and point to them as sign of " see, we need that 'football man' .. "


    [IMG]
  10. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    Why is Ciskowski above reproach? Some people aren't great at their jobs. Look at the players drafted from the southeast when Ciskowski was the regional scout in that area.

    But.....if your GM doesn't really understand scouting or personnel......he isn't going to really assess how good of a job his football people are doing.

    And some people live in a fantasy world where an unqualified owner and his equally unqualified son running a personnel department for a team that has managed 1 playoff win in 15 years is acceptable. And, apparently, not even worth discussing as an issue.
  11. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    In that statement, you just dismissed what Bill Polian said not even 2 days ago, what Bill Parcells said at the same time, what Peter King said, and what other coaches and front office personnel have been saying for years now.

    Fact: scouts ( regional, or dpt heads ) do NOT draft the players. They make recommendation based on the headcoach's system.

    But it's obvious that you don't get how the process works.

    What baramoter is used to determine what a GM " understands " and what he " doesn't undertand " ?

    and there it is: personal agenda meets message.

    You can't argue with facts because they don't back you up, so you go on personality issues.

    " 1 playoff win in 15 years " ?, ok = 3 Superbowl championships in 18 years.

    I'll take that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
  12. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    I don't necessarily believe if you just stick around long enough at a job then eventually you get really good at it. Maybe menial tasks, but for a job like GM of a football team it takes some innate talent.

    The bottomline is most people who get to GM's positions did so after decades of working their way up the ladder. They competed against peers and came out on top based on results and body of work. If they failed they were knocked down the ladder or completely discarded. Jerry's never went through any weeding out process. He put himself on top of the ladder from Day 1. He's stayed there and doesn't accept any real world accountability (ie losing his job) no matter how many times he's failed. If anyone truly believes another GM with Jerry's track record wouldn't have been run out of the league over a decade ago, they're kidding themselves.

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