Philadelphia Eagles

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by AJM1613, Jun 14, 2004.

  1. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    Okay, there are about 5 threads on this team in the Smack Talk Forum and another one in the Cowboys Zone, so I thought I would start one in this forum, pretty much just to clear everything up.

    I don't think that Sheppard and Brown will be better than Vincent and Taylor, I just think that they will be good, not great, good. Personally I think that Sheppard will be a very good player and Brown will be average.

    Sheppard played extremely well last season, being beaten once when the 6'0" Brandon Lloyd out jumped the 5'10" Sheppard in the endzone for a 33 yard TD.

    Brown got beat twice, in the Divisional Playoff win Vs. The Packers. Robert Ferguson beat him twice (40 yard and 17 yard) for TDs. He also had a bad game against Moulds.

    Those were the only three TDs all year let up by the two of them, which isn't bad considering how much they played last year (13 starts, 2 TDs).

    AdamJT13 was throwing out numbers on how they let up 56% because they threw to the WRs more than the TE and HBs when they play, but wouldn't they throw the ball to the WRs the same percentage of the time next year? Please explain this too me.

    The truth is that the 2 games that Brown and Sheppard started in we let up 6.097 ypa compared to the 5.933 ypa Vincent and Taylor let up. That is very close and I am happy if we can get that type of production this year.

    Here is my stats I posted in the thread in the Cowboy's Zone Forum:

    Brown: 7/43 0
    Reed: 1/9 0
    Coles: 5/60 0
    Glenn: 5/41 0
    Conway: 2/32 0
    Finneran: 4/49 0
    Ferguson: 2/16 0
    Hillard: 2/18 0
    Streets: 3/46 0

    Moulds: 8/114 0
    Gardner: 3/25 0
    Pathon: 5/35 0
    Gardner: 2/4 0

    Not top level competion, but they shut down who ever they were covering, except for Moulds.

    I tried to break down everything in your posts and give you some more stats, I just moved this to this Forum because it has nothing to do with the Cowboys.
  2. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    Blindzebra, let me try to show you that safety stats don't matter, I'll go by the last full season they played in:

    2002 B. Dawkins:

    2003 M. Lewis:

    2003 R. Williams:

    2003 D. Woodson:

    2003 O. Stoutmire:

    2002 S. Williams:

    2003: M. Bowen:

    2003 I. Ohalete:

    Those are just the safeties from this divison, Roy Williams' and Brian Dawkins' stats look pretty average, Williams' is actually one of the worst. Just to show you that safeties can't always be judged on stats.
  3. Joshmvii

    Joshmvii Cowboys baby!

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    As much as everyone gives you a hard time here, you're usually relatively unbiased AJM. Those are some funny stats to look at. Roy is by far better than all safeties except Dawkins in the East, but stats don't always show them.

    As for cornerbacks, i'd love to have Sheppard or Brown over our potential #2 guys at this point. I watched the Eagles play last year, and regardless of stats, they played just fine. The Eagles didn't have that great a line rush, and Dawkins wasn't playing, and Sheppard and Brown held up fine. They did win 12 games after all...
  4. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    Just thought I would throw out some of AdamJT13's numbers

    Wide Reciever TD's Against Eagles
    -- Joe Jurevicius, 13 yards vs. Lito Sheppard
    -- Joe Jurevicius, 7 yards vs. Lito Sheppard
    -- Deion Branch, 26 yards vs. Lito Sheppard
    -- Bobby Shaw, 3 yards vs. Roderick Hood
    -- Darnerian McCants, 32 yards vs. Ike Reese
    -- Santana Moss, 60 yards vs. Lito Sheppard & Clinton Hart
    -- Steve Smith, 24 yards vs. Bobby Taylor
    -- Muhsin Muhammad, 23 yards vs. Lito Sheppard
    -- Brandon Lloyd, 33 yards vs. Lito Sheppard
    -- Robert Ferguson, 40 yards vs. Sheldon Brown
    -- Robert Ferguson, 17 yards vs. Sheldon Brown
    -- Muhsin Muhammad, 24 yards vs. Bobby Taylor & Brian Dawkins

    Eagles Vs. Buffalo; Eagles Vs. Redskins
    Ramsey: 271 Yards, 1 TD, 2 Int. QB Rating: 56.33333
    Bledsoe: 291 Yards, 1 TD, 0 Int. QB Rating: 90.84302

    Comparing Vincent and Taylor with Brown and Sheppard
    -- Against Vincent and Taylor, teams averaged 8.33 completions per game to wide receivers, for 81.5 yards per game -- an average of 9.8 yards per completion.

    Against Brown and Sheppard, teams averaged 15.0 completions to receivers, for 193.0 yards -- an average of 12.9 yards per completion.

    -- Against Vincent and Taylor, 28 percent of opponents' pass attempts were completions to receivers, while 35 percent were completions to running backs and tight ends -- for a combined 63-percent completion rate.

    Against Brown and Sheppard, 33 percent of opponents' pass attempts were completions to wide receivers (5 percentage points higher than against Taylor and Vincent), while only 23 percent (12 percentage points lower) were completions to backs and tight ends -- for a combined 56-percent rate.

    Vincent and Taylor didn't cover tight ends, so they didn't allow seven touchdowns. In six games against Vincent and Taylor, opposing receivers scored five touchdowns (.83 per game). And of the Eagles' five picks in those games, Vincent and Taylor had one apiece.

    In two games against Brown and Sheppard, opposing receivers had two touchdowns (1.0 per game). And neither of the Eagles' interceptions in those games came from either Brown or Sheppard. In fact, in a combined 13 games started in their careers, Brown and Sheppard have a grand total of one interception -- and that came off the great Kurt Kittner (and with Troy Vincent playing opposite Sheppard).

    Oh, and let's not forget that in the games Brown and Sheppard played together, they were facing the 21st- and 28th-ranked pass offenses on teams that went 5-11 and 6-10. When Vincent and Taylor played together, they were facing pass offenses ranked sixth, 11th, 17th, 18th (twice) and 26th on teams that went 11-5 (twice), 10-6, 10-6, 7-9 and 5-11. So the competition wasn't even close to being equal, yet Taylor and Vincent still played much better.

    TAYLOR AND VINCENT (16 games)
    156 catches for opposing WRs
    1,526 yards for opposing WRs
    15.6 touchdowns for opposing WRs
    9.8 yards per catch for opposing WRs

    6.3 interceptions for Taylor and Vincent

    BROWN AND SHEPPARD (16 games)
    185 catches for opposing wide receivers
    2,380 yards for opposing WRs
    12.3 touchdowns for opposing WRs
    12.9 yards yards per catch for opposing WRs

    0.0 interceptions for Brown and Sheppard
  5. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    Seahawks | Taylor Working At Nickel CB Spot - from
    Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:16:38 -0700

    Clare Farnsworth, of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, reports
    Seattle Seahawks CB Bobby Taylor has been working at the nickel cornerback position during the team's third and final minicamp.
  6. Tio

    Tio Armchair QB

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    First of all this hurts your argument. What it means is the seahawks nickel cb played better then your starting cb last year.

    Secondly, this is very common in mini camps to look at younger players. EX. Coakley wasn't on the starting defense on one of our camps so we could see some of bradie james...
  7. blindzebra

    blindzebra Well-Known Member

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    If you manipulate them by comparing this season with that season, you can get them to say whatever you WANT them to say.

    Consider this,

    Run Defense in 2003:

    yards per game yards per carry

    Dallas 89.1 3.5

    NYG 119.2 3.8

    Phil 129.4 4.5

    Was 138.6 4.4

    Pass Defense in 2003:

    Comp % Yards per game

    Dallas 48.6 164.4

    Was 59.0 199.7

    Phil 60.3 202.2

    NYG 59.5 213

    Dallas had fewer backs reach the safeties running the ball and allowed much fewer completions.

    How poor the NY and Was defenses played inflated their safeties numbers.

    That is why a head to head PER GAME comparison of their CAREER stats is a much better gauge.

    Nice try, though. ;)
  8. TheKey

    TheKey Faster than Felix

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    Philly sucks, nuff said
  9. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    I just threw it out there, not trying to hurt or help my case.

  10. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    We arn't arguing who had the better career, it is about right now. In Williams' first 2 seasons he had considerably better stats than Dawkins:



    But Dawkins 1st two seasons (1996, 1997) have nothing to do with the way he plays now.

    At least you tried...
  11. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    Eagles | Pinkston Adding Weight - from
    Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:17:27 -0700

    Dave Spadaro, of, reports Philadelphia Eagles WR Todd Pinkston will have added 7-10 pounds on his lean frame by the start of training camp. Pinkston hopes the added weight and increase in strength from training will help him create separation from coverage.

    Doubled his body weight...Watch out :)

    Eagles | Owens To Work Out With McNabb - from
    Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:16:52 -0700

    Dave Spadaro, of, reports Philadelphia Eagles WR Terrell Owens will make the trip out to Arizona to begin a series of offseason workouts with Eagles QB Donovan McNabb. It will be their first one-on-one work since the team's post-draft minicamp and the June passing camps.

  12. Tio

    Tio Armchair QB

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    Since I doubt Zebra is going to read this anymore, i will speak for him. What he is saying is The reason the giants and redskin had better stats is because their defenses front 7 allowed their back to get ten yards and big plays, then their safeties made the tackle. Few Safeties had a worse situation then Williams in Dallas as far as run support. The fact of the matter is, in the two years Williams has played, he has been better than Dawkins.
  13. Tio

    Tio Armchair QB

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    :p To's problem is during the game, when Mcnabb shows incompetent to get him the ball...


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    You've got to be joking! McNabb will get the bal to T.O. But even if he couldn't, T.O. has enough talent to adjust. Besides its not a question of whether or not McNabb can make the pass reach T.O., it's the fact that ...

    McNabb is throwing the ball to T.O.

    McNabb has a quality receiver like T.O. to throw the ball to

    McNabb has the time/protection to throw to his pro bowl receiver

    Take those things into consideration also. :cool:
  15. Tio

    Tio Armchair QB

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    No, because mcnabb, one of the most sacked qaurterbacks ever, has an inaccurate arm. He doesn't trust his arm either, which is smart of him. Unless To is running a Curl, 2 yard slant or another very short ruote, he won't get the ball unless he is wideopen.
  16. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    You don't watch too many Eagle games do you?
  17. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    Eagles | Harrison Released - from
    Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:56:37 -0700

    The Philadelphia Eagles have released LB Tyreo Harrison, according to Dave Spadaro of

    6th round pick in 2002. Had high hopes for him, guess the Trotter signing did have it's draw backs.


    Eagles | Trotter Contract Details - from
    Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:09:31 -0700

    Mark Eckel, of the Trenton Times, reports the contract signed by Philadelphia Eagles LB Jeremiah Trotter is a one-year deal worth $535,000 – the minimum for a player with six years experience.
  18. Sarge

    Sarge Red, White and brew... Staff Member

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    Ya - what he said.

  19. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    Packers | Harrison Claimed Off Waivers - from
    Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:33:48 -0700

    The Green Bay Packers have announced the claiming of LB Tyreo Harrison off waivers from the Philadelphia Eagles.
  20. AJM1613

    AJM1613 New Member

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    From an article at ProFootballWeekly:

    I can't friggin wait to see Jevon play in a game. :thumbsup:

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