Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Hot_Toddy, Oct 9, 2013.
Hindsight draft experts always make me laugh....
This post exemplifies the reason we are struggling to be anything better than your typical, run of the mill message board. Three of 132 players on our board are on practice squads. One had a 3rd round grade and the others a 5 and a 6. Practice squads around this league are filled with 5th and 6th rounders who got cut. That is nothing surprising. So really, one guy we had a bad grade on is what you are complaining about. I'd say that nearly every team in the league would be happy to miss that often.
Post of the day.
My guess is that they were able to watch these guys play in the preseason to get a glimpse of how they might fare against NFL talent. Their draft grade quickly becomes a dim memory. If not, you're probably still giddy over the fact that a "top 2 talent" like Ryan Leaf signed with Dallas years ago. Championship!
Come on, really?? You're going to sit there and tell me that the Cowboys have drafted well in, I don't know, the last decade? Obviously I'm overacting on the Dawkins thing, but doesn't change the fact that the Cowboys have routinely overvalued guys who flat out can't play in the NFL.
You are seeing what you want to see. We "routinely overvalue" guys is evidenced by what? A single player who we had with a third round grade being on a practice squad?
You have a belief and want to ignore any evidence to the contrary.
On any team's draft board you are going to find a ton of misses. It is a major stretch to point to one as some sort of evidence of anything.
looks like jakar hamilton is a dallas cowboy.
jakar hamilton @JakarHamilton23
Free safety for Dallas Cowboys
Who was the better college player, Nevis or Dawkins?
It adding Hamilton to the active roster then I hope it's because he has improved since the preseason.
No my evidence lies in David Arkin, Matt Johnson, Jason Williams, Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, Isiah Stanbeck, and I'm pretty sure 1 or 2 other horrible 3rd or 4th round reaches. And I'm not even going back that far. The team doesn't draft well, its really not a secret either.
Excellent replies and additions everyone. Thanks to all. My apologies for not being available to reply right away.
I've been researching the 3 players in the OP and I can see why the Cowboys had/have interest in them. Especially the Defensive players for our scheme.
I watched 1 full games, 5 full game clips with all the plays for mentioned players, highlight videos and did a lot of research into what their teams fans thought of them as well.
Here's what I scraped together...
DT Everett Dawkins
Vikings Fans perspective: He is on the practice squad due to so many DT's on the Vikings roster before, and still after the 53. He was one of the last cuts and considered a suprise cut by fans, or at least many of the fans when he was initially released. Many fans were elated that he fell to them in the draft. Some mentioned he fits with teams in an aggressive 4-3 which is why 3-4 and some other Defenses let him slide . At least this is what I gathered from their fans. He had a really good camp, though I don't know if he played much in preseason. There were no injuries or injury concerns. Vikings fans were suprised that they didn't find a way to keep him.
The eyeball test: I watched one full game along with some game clips and highlight vids. I am very intrigued from what I saw, at least from a pass rushing perspective. He has a truly explosive first step and a motor that never seems to stop running - He reminds me of a young Ratliff as far as the motor goes. He always seems to be in the backfield. And he gets to them mobile QB's quick. In my opinion, he could use some coaching against the run to shed the block and play with better pad level vs. the run. That is very coachable. I would have liked to see some preseason of him to see how well he plays against NFL caliber talent.
Summary: Great work ethic and a 3-technique DT in an aggressive 4-3 defense. Played DE in High School as well as some DE in college in some formations. I think he would be able to contribute very quickly in obvious passing situations in a backup role and be developed from there.
WR Tavarres King
Broncos fans perspective: Andre Caldwell, Eric Decker, Trindon Holliday, Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker...Well, that's about it really. It was a numbers game to try and get their 53 in order. King was trying to make his mark on special teams but that Holliday fella was probably just tough to get ahead of. He had a great camp per numerous reports, but it sounds like from Broncos fans perspectives, they believe it was a 54 yard dropped pass that Elway took into consideration for the final cuts. Many fans were hoping he would make the 53.
Eyeball Test: Now, I admit, I only watched small clips of games. And this guy seems to have all the traits of a very good receiver...Except for the drops. I didn't see any drops from the clips I watched, though it was mentioned in his "negatives" on the scouting report.
Summary: This kid has most everything you would want in a WR. With hours-on-end with a jugs machine, I think he could be a very special player (if he could be coached to get rid of the dropsies). May be able to contribute quickly on special teams. He is a hard worker and has good knowledge of where he has to be in his routes. Seems to have deceptive speed and is very elusive both after the catch as well as to get quick seperation.
SS Keelan Johnson
Miami and Eagles perspective: He was going against 11 other DBs in Dolphins Camp and basically didn't get many chances to see how he fared. I couldn't find anything when looking for Eagles fans perspective of him.
Eyeball test: I have to admit when I created the thread, I knew very little about him. But, wow..color me impressed. I watched three full game clips of this kid. It was initially only supposed to be one. After the first game I was very impressed, so I watched a second game, and left with a "how in the heck did this kid go undrafted?". Third game, I saw the same. He played mainly in a cover 2 scheme and always knew his assignments. What impressed me is when they went to man coverage he covered the TE's like glue and covered the slot receivers decent as well. Great tackler, he wraps up with perfect technique, but liked to really smack the opponents when given the chance. Always trying to strip the ball in the process and jarred at least one loose for a FF. Very good against both run and pass, though he was a bit too aggressive going for an interception that sailed about an inch above his fingertips for a completion to the receiver. On special teams he seemed to always be the first man there on coverage. I really like this kid, I think he's a diamond in the rough and fits our Defensive scheme very well.
Summary: Great fit for a cover 2 scheme and plays man coverage as well. Always flying to the ball and wrapping up with ideal technique as well as laying out opponents when he has a clean shot. Reads and reacts well against mobile QBs and in the run game. Always attempts to create turnovers when he has the chance. Always one of the first down the field on special teams.
Great addition speedkilz88 - Thanks. It seems I overlooked the Bengals practice squad where 2 of those players were. However, I see Cody Davis is on the active roster of the Rams. I thought that Tyler Wilson was recently called up to the 53 for the Raiders, but I stand corrected.
So with those additions, I'll add quick pre-draft scouting from NFL.com
QB Tyler Wilson (Raiders Practice Squad) - 5th round on Cowboys Board - drafted 4th round by the Raiders
Good size and overall strength for a pocket passer. Tough player who bounces up after hits. Steps up into the pocket and stands tall to deliver the ball under duress - which is just part of outstanding leadership qualities. Arm strength is very impressive in the intermediate game. Shows ability to hit stationery targets and the anticipation to lead receivers in stride and wait patiently for them to get open. Looks at multiple targets before checking down to underneath option. Quicker feet than anticipated, can get first downs on the run when defenses are in man or in deep zones. Can sling the ball into the flat from awkward release points.
Delivery a bit longer than scouts like, his windup allows some alert defensive backs into plays downfield. While he has impressive intermediate arm strength, Wilson frequently floats or underthrows balls on deeper patterns due to a tendency to drop his elbow. Not a quick-twitch athlete; footwork coming out from under center is uneven, pro pass rushers will get him on first contact and disciplined linebackers will prevent his longer runs. Holds ball low in the pocket, vulnerable to strip-sacks. Will trust his arm and his receivers too much, throwing passes into traffic downfield.
WR Cobi Hamilton (Bengals Practice Squad) - 5th round Cowboys Board - drafted 6th round by the Bengals
Big target with a well-built frame who projects as a potential outside starter. Uses his body to get position on his man on inside routes. Displays an extra gear once he gets the ball in his hands. Physical after the catch, showing the ability to break arm tackles. Flashes a quick move after the catch and the balance to leave a leaning cornerback behind, can also stiff-arm smaller defensive backs trying to wrap him up in space. Will through jams at the line of scrimmage, but still needs to improve in this area. Sharp cuts on inside breaking routes at the top of his stem. Adjust well to the flight path of the ball in the air. Should only improve his overall skill set with more opportunities.
Occasionally runs by defenders with his long strides, but scouts won’t expect him to do the same at the next level. Will need to show he can drop his hips and have quick feet to run all NFL routes. Rounds off his cuts on out-braking routes. Concentration is a major issues, as he drops a couple of easily catchable balls a game. Limited catch radius on the move and will fail adjust to low or back-shoulder throws -– quarterback needs to put the ball on his chest. Not a natural hands catcher. Does not win at the line of scrimmage against press as consistently as expected given his build.
OT Reid Fragel (Bengals Practice Squad) - 5th round Cowboys Board - drafted 7th round by the Bengals
Tall, long lineman who has maintained his athleticism despite adding strength throughout his frame-and he still has room to grow in the upper and lower bodies. Doesn’t play like the typical former tight end, gets after defensive ends on the outside and can move tackles off the line in the run game with leverage and strong legs. Attacks ends in pass protection, rides them around the pocket. Flashes lateral movement and quick steps to cut off the edge (on twists, as well), mirror spin moves, or cut off the inside lane. Quick enough off the snap to reach block tackles or take linebackers out of the hole so running backs can cut back. Uses athleticism to take an end around the edge and then quickly get downfield to block on draw plays. Picks up interior blitzers instead of being taken outside by the end. Widens his base in pass protection to prevent getting bulled. Plays with attitude, will extend at the end of plays to finish when in position. Shows some recovery speed if taking a wrong step off the snap, should only improve there because of his athleticism. Attacks the inside shoulder in the running game to automatically put his body in the correct position. Shoulders are over toes when asked to immediately get to the second level. Continues to fight even if put in an awkward, losing position.
Still learning the position, and how to play with additional weight, because of his late switch to the offensive line. Needs to hit his hands inside more consistently to control his target off the snap. Strength is lacking in his grip, can occasionally be thrown around or lunge forward because of it. Overaggressive at times in both pass pro and on run blocks, opponents take advantage of his leaning to push him upfield or get him off-balance. Will stop his feet at times while the play continues, allowing his man to get into plays if they are extended. Inconsistent getting down quickly on his cut blocks, though opponents find it hard to get around them. Must consistently move his feet after latching onto his opponent to prevent getting shed.
That's what I thought. Both drafted in 3rd round, similar size and athleticism, but Nevis had more productive college career (10 sacks vs. 4.5 sacks).
I guess the follow up question is Dawkins better than Carter?
Dawkins was drafted in the 7th round.
Yeah, I have a list from the start of the season and they originally had him on the practice squad but brought him up since, similar to the Cowboys activating Hamilton.
Yea but Scandrick and Harris aren't the only players from that draft in this league. A lot of guys from those drafts are starting or have backup roles for teams now.
I thought he had a 3rd round grade. My bad.
Excellent research Hot_Toddy. You should post more often.
Tm1119, there has been published research of the outcomes of past NFL drafts. I don't remember the exact rankings but the Cowboys were in the top half of teams in regards to successful draft picks.
The overall failure rate for all teams is much higher than most fans believe.