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Presidential politics delaying deal on bailout

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Sasquatch, Sep 26, 2008.

  1. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    Looks like McCain's shameless stunt to score political points has really helped resolve the financial crisis. Washington Mutual would have been one of the principle beneficiaries of the proposed bailout but now they are no more. Well done, Mr. McCain, well done. JP Morgan thanks you for your principled and timely leadership.

  2. irvin88

    irvin88 Active Member

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    Very unbiased "Time" article, same magazine that has had "Mr. Bradley effect" on the cover 9 times.:laugh2:
  3. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    This is one of those arguments that I think is stupid. Obama has been on 9 covers yes, but if you look at the actual covers you understand how meaningless that is.

    2006 cover-
    Well before even the primaries, Obama is alone on the cover for a biographical story. Title: "Why Barack Obama could be the next president." Again, this is 2 years ago, before he even announced he would run.

    2007 cover #1-
    Time's issue of "The Most Influential People in the World" Shares cover with Michael Bloomberg, the Queen of England, Steve Jobs, Beyonce, Tony Dungy, Al Gore, and Leonardo Dicaprio, among others.

    2007 cover #2-
    A few weeks before the Iowa caucus there's a story on Obama entitled "The Contender". He's alone on the cover.

    2008 cover #1-
    Shares cover with Hillary Clinton for a Super Tuesday Edition. Headline: The Struggle for the Soul of the Democrats".

    2008 cover #2-
    Shown as a baby, being held by his mother. Headline: Raising Obama - How is Mother Made Him Who He Is

    2008 cover #3-
    Shown in a shared cover with Hillary. Headline: There Can Be Only One

    2008 cover #4-
    Shown in a shared cover with John McCain for an issue on the economy and a story about each candidates economic plans.

    2008 cover #5-
    Shown alone for a special issue title: "The Democrats". One week later a special issue is released with a similar portrait of McCain title, "The Republicans".

    2008 cover #6-
    Shown in a shared cover with John McCain for an issue titled "21 Ways to Fix America".

    To sum it all up:
    There are 4 covers where he is the central focus. One is before he even announced an exploratory committee. One was a "special issue" in which McCain was given the exact some treatment the following week. So, you have 2 covers of him alone since the primaries started and only one since he secured the nomination and Hillary suspended her campaign. That one issue is the "special issue".

    There are 2 covers of Obama and Hillary together.

    There are 2 covers of McCain and Obama together.

    There is 1 cover where he is one of 12 people pictured, for a story on 100 people.


    source: http://www.time.com/time/searchresults?N=46&Ntk=NoBody&Nty=1&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&Ntt=obama&x=0&y=0
    *2008 cover#6 is not shown on this page
  4. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    I'll also say, in 2008 Obama has been on 6 covers and McCain has been on 4. Biden has been on 0, Palin has been on 1.

    Oh no, what rampant bias.
  5. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow! Zone Supporter

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    It's not just presidential politics. Everyone there is playing politics. If this is as major as some are making it out to be, isn't now a good time to actually put aside the petty politics and do something?

    You'd think, if we really are staring another depression right in the face, people would work as fast as they could as best as they could and get this done, but no, there is political posturing all over the place. Everyone laying blame at the feet of the other party.

    Why in the world does our political system suck so much?
  6. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow! Zone Supporter

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    A bad day for the GOP on politics, bailout plan
    By CHARLES BABINGTON – 2 hours ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Even for a party whose president suffers dismal approval ratings, whose legislative wing lost control of Congress and whose presidential nominee trails in the polls, it was a remarkably bad day for Republicans.

    A White House summit meeting on Thursday meant to shore up John McCain's shaky campaign "devolved into a contentious shouting match." And that's how McCain's own campaign described it.

    The meeting revealed that President Bush's $700 billion bid to combat the worst financial crisis in decades had been suddenly sidetracked by fellow Republicans in the House, who refused to embrace a plan that appeared close to acceptance by the Senate and most House Democrats.

    Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson begged Democratic participants not to disclose how badly the meeting had gone, dropping to one knee in a teasing way to make his point according to witnesses.

    And when Paulson hastily tried to revive talks in a nighttime meeting near the Senate chamber, the House's top Republican refused to send a negotiator.

    "This is the president's own party," said Rep. Barney Frank, a top Democratic negotiator who attended both meetings. "I don't think a president has been repudiated so strongly by the congressional wing of his own party in a long time."

    By midnight, it was hard to tell who had suffered a worse evening, Bush or McCain. McCain, eager to shore up his image as a leader who rises above partisanship, was undercut by a fierce political squabble within his own party's ranks.

    The consequences could be worse for Bush, and for millions of Americans if the impasse sends financial markets tumbling, as some officials fear. Closed-door negotiations were to resume Friday, but it was unclear whether House Republicans would attend.

    Republicans and Democrats alike seemed unsure which way McCain was leaning. His campaign's statement late Thursday shed little light.

    "At this moment, the plan that has been put forth by the administration does not enjoy the confidence of the American people," it said. It was unclear whether McCain would attend Friday night's scheduled debate against Democratic nominee Barack Obama in Oxford, Miss.

    Ordinarily a Republican president's problems are with Democrats, especially if they control the House and Senate. In this case, Bush seemed almost over that hurdle.

    To be sure, Democrats demanded a number of changes in his $700 billion bailout plan, but administration insiders signaled they probably were acceptable. They included greater oversight, more protections for taxpayers, efforts to head off home foreclosures and piecemeal allocations of the federal money to buy toxic mortgage securities.

    What caught some by surprise, either at the White House meeting or shortly before it, was the sudden momentum behind a dramatically different plan drafted by House conservatives with Minority Leader John Boehner's blessing.

    Instead of the government buying the distressed securities, the new plan would have banks, financial firms and other investors that hold such loans pay the Treasury to insure them. Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., a chief sponsor, said it was clear that Bush's plan "was not going to pass the House."

    But Democrats said the same was true of the conservatives' plan. It calls for tax cuts and insurance provisions the majority party will not accept, they said.

    At one point in the White House meeting, according to two officials, McCain voiced support for Ryan's criticisms of the administration's proposal. Frank, a gruff Massachusetts liberal, angrily demanded to know what plan McCain favored.

    These officials also said that as tempers flared, Bush struggled at times to maintain control.

    At one point, several minutes into the session, Obama said it was time to hear from McCain. According to a Republican who was there, "all he said was, 'I support the principles that House Republicans are fighting for.'"

    Some at the table took that to mean the conservatives' alternative proposal, which stands little chance of passage.

    A few hours later, Paulson and the handful of negotiators wearily headed for home. Frank told The Associated Press: "I did tell Secretary Paulson that this whole thing is at risk if the president can't get members of his own party to participate."

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Dodd is currently being investigated for his role in this whole thing. Franks is in the same boat.

    Here is the story behind the Bailout and why not everybody is willing to just go along with it.


    « Tree of the Week: Exploring the underground jungle | Main | America's most expensive gas? It's in L.A. Land. »

    Did Bank of America write the Dodd bailout bill?
    Those following the progress of the Dodd-Shelby mortgage rescue plan in the Senate might want to check out two solid pieces of enterprising reporting on the bill this weekend.

    First, the Examiner's Tim Carney reports that the bailout section of the Dodd-Shelby bill is, in the words a lobbyist, "exactly what Bank of America and Countrywide wanted."

    Is there a connection between Bank of America and Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.)? There is. Carney: "Bank of America's political action committee (PAC) has donated $20,000 to Dodd since he became chairman of the banking panel 17 months ago. From January 2007 to March 2008, Bank of America employees have donated at least $50,400 to Dodd's campaigns, according to the Center for Responsive Politics."

    National Review's the Corner follows up, citing an internal Bank of America document:

    "National Review Online has obtained an internal Bank of America "discussion document" (PDF here) on the subject of the FHA Housing Stabilization and Homeownership Retention Act of 2008, a.k.a. the Dodd-Shelby mortgage-lender bailout bill .... This discussion document (dated March 11, 2008) would appear to support the contention that BofA essentially wrote the bailout section of the bill."

    Faithful readers of the blog will remember that Bank of America has been pushing hard for a big federal intervention for months. This was from a New York Times story on BofA's lobbying efforts back in February: "Bank of America suggested creating a Federal Homeowner Preservation Corporation that would buy up billions of dollars in troubled mortgages at a deep discount, forgive debt above the current market value of the homes and use federal loan guarantees to refinance the borrowers at lower rates. 'We believe that any intervention by the federal government will be acceptable only if it is not perceived as a bailout of the bond market,' the financial institution noted. In practice, taxpayers would almost certainly view such a move as a bailout."

    At some point Sas, you have to step back and ask why? Why are we in this mess and who got us there? Why are those same people trying to rush a 700 Billion dollar Bailout program through so desperatly? Why do they not want Obama or McCain to come to Washington and look at this thing more closely?

    At some point, you have to drop the party line and see what's really happening. Make decisions based on what's good for the Country, not for what party is elected. I just think it's a shame that everybody is so willing to accept these same criminals who started all this as authorities on what needs to be done to fix it.
  8. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    That is a joke, McCain did not cause this problem.
  9. ThaBigP

    ThaBigP New Member

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    The Democrats in the House and Senate have enough votes, *as-is*, to pass this bill over the heads of the balking House Republicans....yet they don't want to do that. Ever consider why that is? Of course not, so I'll inform you - they want cover. When this massive expansion of government happens and fails (if it passes as-is), they want to be able to point to the Republicans going along and say "see, it wasn't just us". If they are so right, and the conservatives are so wrong, fine. Pass it over their heads....ram it down their throats and claim singular credit for the fix.

    I'll also add that you're (as usual) trying to have it both ways...blaming McCain for failing to deliver a government bailout of WaMu, then praising the private solution to the problem. Can't have it both ways pal. JPMorgan tried to buy WaMu a while back and the WaMu board balked. They've been chastised for failing to take that deal when they had a chance. You also fail to consider something else...FDIC is almost out of money. Without a private solution to that bank, its failure would have run FDIC into the red. Again, the Treasury would have had to print money to cover their obligations, and people's money there would have actually been in jeopardy as a result. This solution avoids that, and the massive inflation that could be coming our way as a result of firing up the virtual $ presses.
  10. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    McCain did nothing but put politics right back into this discussion.

    Obama was right...they should have stayed out of Washington.
  11. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I would love for Obama to stay out of Washington. Considering what takes place in Washington as both sides hammer out a deal will play a very big part of the next administration they both may want to be there leading the meetings behind closed doors with their respective party memebers.

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh CC, I don't know about that. I mean, do you honestly know what is involved in that Bailout Plan? I will be the first to say that I have not really heard very much at all about what it will actually do. I've heard 700 Billion, maybe a Trillion but for what? I think everybody needs to understand exactly what that money is going for. Not just to help out BofA.

    BTW, how bout them Beavers?

  13. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Face it guys...Obama was right.

    All McCain did was put politics into it, get in the way and offer NOTHING.

    Loved USC losing...but on the other hand I went ***...Ohio St got creamed by them.

    Then I got mad! :mad:
  14. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree and think both men are wrong. What are they going to say? what kind of promises can they make until something is worked out in Washington all the promises they make or pledges they make tonight will not mean a damn thing. Universal health care? Taxes breaks? Raising or lowering certain taxes? None of that means jack until this crisis is addressed and last time I looked congress does not convene in Oxford Mississippi

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    CC, while I know you don't agree with many of my positions on things, I do believe that you are an honest person and at least open to other points of view. Look at who is putting together this bailout. Look at the roles they played in this whole deal to begin with. Look at who there current affiliations are with. Try to find out what exactly this 700 Billion is going to go towards. Who has control of the money. Who will be in a position of oversite.

    This is a huge financial burden for the Tax Payers to shoulder if this goes south. Things will not get worse, they will get desperatly worse if we make a mistake on this thing and it ends up in the latrine. Try not to look at this from the perspective of Democrat or Republican, Lib or Conserv. Look at it as if you are investing your life savings in a business venture. As if it were your own hard earned dollars from your own bank account today. I mean, it really is your money they are talking about and I don't trust the guys who are talking any further then I can spit them.
  16. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    So we agree it was wrong for McCain to go to Washington and inject politics into this?


  17. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    I don't disagree with what you're saying at all, except that I just think...Honestly...that McCain did this for political reasons.

    This was a man who hadn't even read a two page bailout plan that had been on the table for days and then he's going to swoop in and save the day?

    By all accounts, at the White House meeting yesterday...he said basically nothing...because he had nothing to offer.

    There are people infinitely more intelligent on this matter...Democrats and Republicans that were more than capable of handling this mess with out McCain showboating for the camera like he was the White Knight.

    That's how I honestly feel.
  18. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    Its a democrat majority congress.
    They can pass the bill without a single republican vote on it.

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    This was also a man who said that he was not in favor of a Federal Bailout some time ago.

    I don't know about you but to me, the smartest guy in the room is the guy who listens to whats going on as opposed to the guy who talks real loud and orders everybody around before he knows whats going on. I'm not saying he is the smartest guy in the room but I am saying that we don't know what was said behind closed doors with other memebers of each party by Obama or McCain. Don't be lead around by the press. They rearly know whats really going on. Last night, they were all over Dodd's jock prior to learning that the Bank of America and Country Wide were behind his bailout proposal. I have no problem with either guy asking questions and trying to understand what's being proposed. To me, that's to the good for both Obama and McCain. I don't expect either man to charge in and save the day but you have to admit, this thing was not nearly as done as the Democrats claimed and there are still a lot of open questions with regards to this bill just now coming to light because somebody decided to ask questions. That's not a bad thing IMO.
  20. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Obviously we're never going to agree on this.

    But we can agree that Ohio St not only losing to USC...but the way they did...especially after last night was PATHETIC!


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