Pro Wrestling Talk

Discussion in 'Off-topic Zone' started by timb2, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. timb2

    timb2 Well-Known Member

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    The wrestlers of today should study guys that were very good on the mic back in the day. Guys like Ernie Ladd,Michael Hayes,Ric Flair,Austin Idol,Jerry Lawler,Bruiser Brody,Jimmy Hary,Gary Hart,etc. Some were not the greatest bodies but they could put fans in the seats because they knew how to sell an event.
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  2. timb2

    timb2 Well-Known Member

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    Good match but what I am getting use to seeing.A bunch of acrobats selling their signature moves,but where is the build up the MIC skills are needed,the storyline for them not liking each other???
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  3. timb2

    timb2 Well-Known Member

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    NWO vs DX was not even close. NWO all the way!! DX was like watching a bunch of kids playing pranks on Vince McMahon like it was Ferris Bueller's Day Off... NWO had it going on until Vince Russo came in and ruined it. Jeff Jarrett he pushed was horrible. Jarrett barely could speak proper English and I never understood that wrestling look with that neck collar outfit?? Jarrett looked like a contestant for Miss Transgender or something.... NWO Just Hogan,Hall,Nash,S.Steiner,Bagwell and maybe Scott Norton...Most of the others were Hot Trash.... DX as soon as XPAC was fired by WCW,he was hired by WWE and put into DX. I just remember Sean Waltman saying that Nash & Hall could get out of their contracts they would be there too on RAW. Wow what a great selling point that the WWE was losing to WCW makes me want to root for DX(NAH I don't think so)...HHH acts like he did something for WCW's fall. He had nothing to do with it. This is what I'm talking about HHH's ego. He over inflates himself. HHH was a average worker and only worked best as a heel.Him and Michaels mentally pushing Candido to suicide shows how much of a trash person HHH is. He is only there because he married the owners daughter. HHH hated Edge and wanted to fire him but Vince McMahon was not that stupid because Edge was a good draw. HHH's ego again at work...The reason Stone Cold Steve Austin is not there is also questionable,who is in charge???
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  4. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    HHH was nothing until he started his new diet in the WWE. Remember John Paul Levesque with the neckerchief and the ruffles and curtsy
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  5. timb2

    timb2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is why I think HHH kept Steve Regal around because Regal gave him his 1st break as his tag team partner in WCW... HHH oeiginally was named Terra Rising
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  6. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    Recently I heard Ryback on his podcast stating that Vince would have Michael Hayes and Arn Anderson come right in and tell them to cut a promo and Hayes and Arn could do it on command and cut a better promo than anybody on the roster. It really doesn’t surprise me. Hayes, IMO, is the most underrated mic worker of all time and Arn is a HoF’er on the mic in his own right.

    But, what I had to laugh about is the notion that Vince was more or less putting down the current wrestlers for not being able to cut a promo and then have Arn and Hayes ‘show ‘em how it’s done.’ The WWE simply doesn’t have many promos these days. Instead, they rely on vignettes. And when you don’t give wrestlers the time to cut a promo they certainly are not going to get good at it.

    Vignettes are used way too much in wrestling. There are 3 major issues with using vignettes:

    1. The logic of a backstage camera filming wrestlers talking rarely makes sense.

    2. Wrestlers, by and large, are not good at vignettes because it requires acting skills.

    3. Vignettes, even when executed well, rarely sell the audience on what the promotion is delivering.

    #3 is about as important as anything and is something completely lost from wrestling today, even when they do cut promos.

    The wrestlers have to SELL to the fans what they and the promotion have to offer.

    Paul Heyman recounted a story when he first came to WCW that he went on TV and was super-duper charged to stand out. Afterwards, the booker Dusty Rhodes told him (paraphrasing) ‘That’s terrific energy, kid. But, where’s the MONEY?’

    It’s not surprising to me that Dusty said that because Dusty was the best I ever saw at cutting a promo and making sure to sell to the fans as to why they should pay the money to come see him take on his opponent. And I wasn’t even a big Dusty fan, but from the perspective of being able to actually sell to the fans to come see him in a promo, nobody was better than Dusty.

    This is really the main fundamental of promos. It’s a sales pitch to the fans. There are numerous ways to cut face promos and numerous ways to cut heel promos. But the tried and true fundamental is that the babyface sells to the fans that if they pay money to see him wrestle, he will right the wrongs that the heel did to him. And the face will tell you where and when that will happen.

    As I said before, there’s numerous ways to cut heel promos. But, the heel still needs to sell his rivalry and upcoming match as well. And the most basic form of that is the heel is authentic in his belief that he will defeat the babyface and revel in the fans’ anger over his victory.

    This is why the current system of using TV writers works so poorly. Yes, wrestlers having to portray a character and stick to strict script is a recipe for bad promos. But, it’s not always that bad. However, TV writers have failed to understand how to get a promo that sells the product to the audience.

    I see a lot of the modern fans don’t quite realize this as well. Today, when I read about somebody being ‘great on the mic’ I tend to see it as a person that appears comfortable on the mic and doesn’t stumble over their words. But that doesn’t equate to being great or even very good on the mic.

    I think Bray Wyatt is a great example of this. Yes, he is comfortable on the mic and has some neat lines to say. But the reality is that it all forms into mostly gibberish and fails to sell him and his rivalry and upcoming match against his opponent. Furthermore, he uses a catchphrase (Follow the Buzzards) which is a babyface type of move and again…is mostly nonsensical and doesn’t sell the viewer on who he is fighting against.

    Another final issue with today’s wrestling when it comes to promos is the announcer (or reporter) that is holding the mic.

    I think the announcer holding the mic plays an important role when a wrestler is cutting a promo. They need to react properly to the wrestler’s statements so the audience can get the entire effect of what is being said. Where I give Vince credit is that he will usually get professional looking talent to hold the mic. This is better than having somebody with a gimmick and a color outfit holding the mic. Those types usually distract from what the wrestler is saying.

    The problem is that people like Renee Young, Byron Saxton, etc. have zero reaction or have the wrong reaction to what is being said. This is why guys like Gene Okerlund, Tony Schiavone, Lance Russell, Joey Styles, Jim Ross, etc. were so valuable. They didn’t look like models, but they got more out of helping with the promo and thus selling the product to the audience.

    Here’s one of my favorite promos of all time with Jos Leduc on Jerry Lawler. Leduc was a monster heel and cuts a promo where he’s angry (and crazy) like a monster heel should be. And that he’s fed up with Jerry Lawler and is obsessed with hurting Lawler. Lance Russell does a great job of showing that he’s uncomfortable and scared for Lawler which helps the promo because now the audience is more concerned for Jerry.

    And here’s one of my favorite babyface promos by Buddy Landell. Landell is turning from heel to face and is presenting himself as an underdog that has been knocked down by his own demons, but is rising up again. And what’s great is how he sells to the audience as to why you want to come see his match along with making sure that they know where and when the match will be.

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  7. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    One of the most overlooked, but extremely important aspects of a pro wrestling company is the lead announcer. The lead announcer is the person in charge of presenting the product, enhancing the product and basically gives a first impression to the viewer.

    However, the lead announcer is a unique situation in that if the product stinks, the announcer is viewed negatively. It simply doesn’t matter how good the announcer is, if the product stinks the fans will turn against him and he may never get a second chance to restore their faith. But, the reverse is not true either. If the product is good and the announcer stinks, the fans won’t view the announcer positively and it may turn them off to the good product overall. The lead announcer position is so critical because it plays an impact on the product and there’s so little margin for error.

    WWE announcers end up stinking because Vince McMahon is constantly in the headset directing them what to say and Vince McMahon was a terrible announcer himself. So they are directed by a terrible announcer to do terrible announcing. Jim Ross was the exception because Ross was taught by Bill Watts who was an excellent announcer and Ross had already made his bones in the business and didn’t follow every direction Vince gave him.

    I’m not a big fan of color commentators because it’s so reliant on chemistry. You can have a play-by-play announcer who is good on his own and a color commentator that is good on his own…but if they don’t have the right chemistry than both will stink. This is why I think Jesse Ventura was undoubtedly the best color commentator in the business. He was able to have chemistry with whomever he announced with. He and Jim Ross didn’t get along and Jesse was still able to create a formidable annoucing duo.

    I think the main duties of the lead announcer are:

    1. Hyping the show that is about to be presented to the viewer

    2. Calling the match

    3. Conducting interviews

    4. Providing editorials

    5. Reacting to the wrestlers and whatever is going on.

    One of the lost arts of wrestling is the announcer’s ability to call the match. Most indie announcers take calling the match too literally. They call out every move done instead of telling a story of what is going on. The viewer is watching the match, so calling out every move is overkill because they can see what is going on. Instead, they cannot always piece together the story of what is going on like the smaller wrestler using the ropes to propel himself with more force towards his larger opponent. Or the one wrestler not only wanting to win the match, but looking to injure the opponent. Or the babyface that is outsmarting the heels.

    With WWE announcing they are often in void of calling any of the action and instead promote some other feud that has nothing to do with the match at hand. But, what do you expect when Vince McMahon’s announcing mostly consisted of say ‘WHAT A MANEUVER!’

    I’m sure Vince’s argument will be that he’s trying to promote the bigger draws to the card when they incessantly discuss them in midcard matches. But, in wrestling…even in the WWE…there needs to be a sense of urgency in developing new stars because it’s so difficult to do so. And if the wrestler is truly a star, they need to earn their own keep and be a star without doing it at the expense of others.

    What I think so many promotions have lost out on is the editorial comments from the announcer. To me, Joey Styles was probably the best I’ve ever seen at this. On almost a weekly basis he would make some sort of editorial commentary that was phrased just right so that I would remember it for months after the fact.

    Here’s a great editorial bit from Gordon Solie after Terry Funk viciously beats up journeyman Bruce Walkup and Funk calls out Dusty:

    When Dusty meets him…he knows. He knows the bunkhouse. He knows the steel cage. He knows pain. Terry Funk…may yet have some lessons to be learned.

    Such a great commentary that leaves a great imprint in the viewer’s head. And Gordon also sold the match between Funk and Dusty by stating of where they might fight each other. It’s a tremendous job of enticing the fans to make sure that they watch them on TV and pay to go see them live because you never know what could happen when they finally meet.

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  8. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    Gordon Solie was the best in the business and didn't need a "color" guy even there he ended up with one on occasion like Roddy Piper.
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  9. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Gordon with my favorite:


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