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ReaganBushDebt.org

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by masomenos, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    http://reaganbushdebt.org/

    I imagine this is misleading somehow and/or is taken out of context in one way or another. What's the truth?
  2. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    someone was mad they didn't get their way.
    they put up a website.
    people read it.

    i long for the day people quit thinking the website is legit on it's own.
  3. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    Is it just blatantly false then?
  4. hairic

    hairic Well-Known Member

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  5. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    No but lets put these facts out there under Reagan and Bush Senior the Cold War was still going, matter of fact it was frigid when Reagan was in office and the WW3 was averted at least once. Comparing the debt that this country has run up over the last 50 years to the previous 150 is apples and oranges especially since the economic systems have changed so much, including the monetary system.
  6. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Several things contribute to this.

    1. $100 billion today is worth far less than what it was worth 40 years ago.

    2. Either a Bush or Reagan has been in office for 20 of the last 28 years.

    3. There's only been one truly fiscally conservative period in our government and that was during the mid 90s when Gingrich and the Republicans held to their convictions. And, of course, that was sandwiched in between the Bushes.

    I think if you look at federal spending as a % of GDP, we've been on a modest downslope for the past 30 years, with a few bumps of course. That was preceded by about 30 years of upward pressure on spending.
  7. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    Unfortunately, there is likely more truth than falsehood to this particular site. But, in my opinion, there are vast difference between the respective intents of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush in their spending endeavors.

    Upon his exodus from office, Reagan conceded that the greatest failure of his presidency was the enormous national debt with which he left the nation.

    Despite his policies, Reagan fervently believed in fiscal discipline and balanced budgets; however, when he saw an opportunity to topple the Soviet Empire--perhaps the greatest threat to democracy--by outspending it, he seized that opportunity.

    Reagan understood the folly of deficit spending, and only engaged in it with a clear purpose and goal.

    Conversely, Bush, Jr. and Cheney have stated that "deficits don't matter." They fail to grasp the consequences of deficit spending, and engage in it because they simply don't know any better.

    That's my opinion, anyway.
  8. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    I think they probably believe that maintaining current % of GDP levels (in spending, deficits, total debt, etc.) is not problematic and I can't say that there's much evidence that it is.
  9. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    Despite my profligacy, I fervently believe in temperance and thrift.
  10. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    I'm no economics expert so I readily concede ignorance.

    However, by my limited understanding, enormous national deficits adversely affect the value of our dollar relative to the rest of the world. Our dollar enjoyed such strength in the 90s because Clinton and the Republican Congress worked so intently to cut spending and balance the budget.
  11. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    Do you believe in them absolutely, without exception or anomaly?

    Or, do you envision situations in which exorbitance and quick decisiveness may constitute better courses of action?

    These questions were Reagan's conundrum.
  12. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    It's a republican logical absurdity since the so-called exception is in fact the norm.
  13. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    And it's logically remiss to assume that every Republican presidency faces the same set of challenges.

    Furthermore, the Gingrich-led Republican congress not only preached but lived the gospel of fiscal restraint and balanced budgets.
  14. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    To be fair, they all do appear to face extremely menacing existential threats which necessitate deviating from their fervent belief in fiscal discipline and balanced budgets.

    And despite Bill Clinton's philandering, he fervently believes in monogamy and fidelity.
  15. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    No liberal has any business ever lecturing ANYONE about spending the taxpayers money.
  16. CowboyWay

    CowboyWay If Coach would have put me in, we'd a won State

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    Bush is the devil.
  17. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    You're assuming current levels are "enormous."

    http://www.cbo.gov/budget/data/historical.shtml

    Scroll down to the second chart that puts the #s as a percentage of GDP. For deficits, you see:

    2005 - 2.6%
    2006 - 1.9%
    2007 - 1.2%

    Those are historically low numbers.
  18. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    One thing that always gets me about threads like this is that the liberals usually come along and say, "See I told you Republicans weren't fiscally conservative." They don't actually attack the position of being fiscally conservative. In fact, it almost seems as if it's assumed that fiscal conservatism is the ideal position -- they're simply pointing out that Republicans haven't stuck with their principals.
  19. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    Only partially true, the budget was balanced ONLY if you did not take social security into account, if social security was added to the ledger the budget was like 500 million in the red.
  20. ThaBigP

    ThaBigP New Member

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    Sorta, but not quite. Same goes if you'd asked if it was "true". Here's how:

    Reagan's big budgetary demands were lower taxes and a vast increase in military spending. The military expenses did their part for ballooning the budget, but it was needed spending as somebody pointed out - we were at a crucial turning point in the Cold War, and according to what we've learned since the fall of the Soviet Union, were on the brink of being confronted by a militarily superior Soviet Union (Brezhnev/Politburo decision in '69 to overtake us militarily within 10 years and *force* a confrontation, etc). However, the tax cuts actually increased revenue to the treasury, in spite of the naysayers claims to the contrary. Treasury receipts show this. The increase in receipts actually well outstripped the new military spending. But, and here's where the "sorta" comes from, Congress actually *increased* spending across the board by exponential amounts. Those new expenditures (mainly by social program expansion) are what pushed the budget further into deficit, not the military spending or taxes cuts. Reagan actually begrudgingly signed onto a minor tax increase a few years later on the promise that Congress would also cut spending and get that in check. Reagan delivered on his pledge, Congress rescinded theirs. Slightly higher taxes with further spending increases. So let that be your guide as to whom you can trust.

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