Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by InmanRoshi, Apr 28, 2011.
I'll recap it.
JJT coming with Norm after that ... I'll half heartedly recap that.
I will take a stab at it too if ok buddy
Goose: interperatation on stay by judge; filed an appeal to circuit higher court, you wont see trades, free agency or open doors with players, till the holding pattern til they get something settled, until court rules at 5 today but i doubt they will rule today in higher court
Goose board views question on qbs, i think sf, washington, could all move out, but you have to have a qb in the league to play and win, so theres alot that goes in a mock draft and why i had some higher players avalable in my mock draft with possible run on qbs.
goose, safe to say gabbert and newton go high
goose; miami at 15 trade down to cowboys, inthis draft i dont think you trade up for a qb, again i dont think miami moves up for a qb, even for just a 3rd to move up
goose; theres not a bradford type qb in this draft to trade up
goose, cowboys will have a chance to trade down, even if teams jump early at qbs other playersat other positions make make it available for teams to trade up with cowboys if teams take qbs early
goose, thats why ihad tyron smith on my mock draft
goose; a possibility cowboys trade up, if qbs go high, but even at 20s and 30s there will be better players then you think, was talking about moving up later in the draft from 2nd round or even move up in first round if a certain player falls
goose, atlanta up in this draft, love to get a wr, only 2 here but i dont know how the falcons can move up that high to get the 2 elite wrs
washington and vikes looking for qb and to move up or down
tryon smith is top ol on board, and cowboys could get an offer from a team that wants to trade up to get tryon smith, im so tired of trading down, you need a blue chip player, stay there and take one, im so tired of hearing cowboys trading down, this is why you have the draft, when you have a losing year, you have a chance to get a blue chip player, again stay there and get one to help your team
what a difference if cowboys had 6th or 7th position in this draft and cowboys really could have gotten somethingto trade up easier if they had 7th slot
if you dont have a qb on your team like the vikes or skins, your looking at draft board of mainly one position, qb, you have to get a qb like vikes and skins are looking at
i think von miller is a better player than dareus
fairley, is more of a dt,and somebody has to get pushed out, nothing wrong with him,if teennessee doesnt get a qb, fairley is their guy
prince had no interceptions last year, thats troublesome, why i had him drafted lower
bowers, yes, its all about medical, but i see him going in 20s maybe even sliding into 2nd round
Great work, thanks Joe!
Joe covered everything. Goose seemed almost exasperated by Cowboys moving down. Stay where you are and take Tyron, you win with blue chip players (his overall sentiment).
Could you interpret what it means that the judge denies the request for a stay?
The league last night filed an appeal with the 8th Circuit, so it remains in a holding pattern with no player trades or free agency until that appeal gets
So there’s no implications on tonights draft?
Not unless the 8th Circuit rules this afternoon.
You have QBs zooming up the board.
I think they all get pushed up. Do I think they all go to all those picks I had them going to? No. I think some of those teams are going to try to trade down and pick them later. But I think 5 QBs in the 1st round, and to line them up. It’s hard to slot those QBs to teams in the 20s, so there’s a lot of moving pieces in a mock. .
Does Miami at #15 consititute a logical trade down partner for the Cowboys? They need a QB and they have someone with Cowboy ties running their front office?
I would be surprised. I think Dolphins, Jacksonville, Seattle and Denver would all take a QB if the price is right, but I don’t think a lot of teams are looking to trade a whole lot ot move up for a QB because there are no Sam Bradfords in this draft. The only player I trade up into the Top 10 for is Peterson. Do the Cowboys have a chance to trade down? Yes, there is a chance, and the Cowboys certainly always look to trade down.
When you chose Tyron Smith to the Cowboys at #9, who else did you have as a possibility for that pick?
Watt. I think he’s a perfect fit in the 3-4 DE. But Tyson is the 7th player on my board, so that’s the perfect combination of need and value. I’ve been high on Tyson Smith for a while.
If QBs go early and some defensive players start sliding into the 20s, couldn’t the Cowboys move up to grab some of those sliding players? Atlanta at 27, for instance, now has players they didn’t expect to be there at that pick. They could be a partner to move down.
I think Atlanta is trying to move up to get a WR. A lot of teams in the late 1st round are trying to move up or down. 16 teams in the Top 28 are trying to move up or down. Washington is looking both ways. Minnesota is looking both ways. If they’re looking to move, it’s probably for a QB.
Do you think the Cowboys could even get an offer for Tyron Smith at #9 and move down?
They might. But what is wrong with staying put and taking Tyron Smith? I’m so tired of them just trading down for the sake of trading down. You win in this league with blue chip players, what’s wrong with just staying put and taking a blue chip player?
Do you think Carolina’s takes Newton?
It’s their screaming need. They need a QB. If you don’t have a QB, your entire draft is warped around the QB. You got to have a quarterback, period. Every team that doesn’t have one is having to build their entire board around the QB positon
Denver going Von Miller instead of Dareus?
Fox wants linebackers and tackles, and there is only 1 good linebacker in this draft and there’s a lot of DTs. He can find defensive tackles in the 2nd round. Besides, I think Von Miller is just a better player than Dareus.
Why has Fairley dropped out of the Top 10?
He’s a lighter guy. He's a pure 3 tech . He’s the best interior rusher in the draft. There’s nothing really wrong with him, but some one is getting pushed out if these QBs go. If Tennessee doesn’t go with QB, Fairley is their guy.
Why does Prince slide in your draft?
It’s another case of a player sliding after all the QBs get picked. I will say it really bothers some people he had 0 interceptions last year. Not often you find a guy who is supposedly an elite CB that you’re taking in the 1st round pick with 0 interceptions.
It’s all medical. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone takes him in the 20’s because he’s too good of a value, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he completely falls out of the 1st round and that’s what I projected in my mock.
I'm with Goose.
I believe Tyron Smith and Castonzo are good values at need positions at #9. RT is a huge need position, and there is no way Colombo comes back next year as a starter. I believe Watt is also in that tier. I'm very uncomfortable moving down and losing out on that tier of talent and having to settle for a lesser talent. But in that lower tier of Dallas possibilities are Cam Jordan, Solder.
Look for the Cowboys to be looking to move down from the 40th pick if Danny Watkins isn't there, which he probably won't be.
If they trade down in the 2nd round ... keep your mind open on RBs. There's value there. Ryan Williams, VT. Daniel Thompas. Leshoure. Shane Vereen. You may think the Cowboys don't need a RB, but did it look to you like the Cowboys were comfortable at that position last year? Keep your mind open to linebackers. Look at LB Bruce Carter from UNC, who they brought in for a visit who was injured last year but a very good player. Think offensive guards, like Will Rackley.
As the draft unfolds, there are going to be some players taken a 58 that the Cowboys had at 88, and vice versa. A huge pond of players that are ranked about the same, and it's a wide open draft in rounds 2, 3 and 4. Keep your mind open to all possibilities
Mark 4th round for a possible free safety. That's where the value starts to show up for safeties.
Later on in the late rounds, think pure nose tackles or very, very off the beaten path WRs.
I believe Tyron is the pick at #9. 2nd and 3rd round ... it's all wide open.
Hey IR, I heard Norm on the way to work... How much of that do you think is stuff he's heard, and how much his own opinion? It's hard to tell with him. I do know that during the draft he'll often say, "That's a player the Cowboys really, really liked!" after they're taken.
But I kind of got the idea that he was given some names on the 4th round safety and later NT and WR. Wonder if they could happen to be the NT from Central Arkansas and the WR from Ft Valley that Parcells mentioned.
jjt is suppose to be on about 11:10 if interested
Same here, You need a tackle and there is only one blue chip tackle on the board. If he is there at nine, you have to take him.
I do know that he goes out to dinner in NYC with a long time scout every night before the draft, so every draft day he has a lot of rumors that he didn't have even earlier in the week.
Hard to say how much his innuendo and speculation was based on real sources with the #9 pick, because he was basically throwing everything against the wall. He laid out about 7 different scenerios, so that's casting a pretty wide net.
I usually perk my ears up when he starts to get specific, as you mentioned with the late round NT and WR. Also, Bruce Carter's name being dropped. I think the RB possibility in the 2nd is intriguing because other people haven't really talked about it and it might be a bigger need than fans think. MB3 is a goner from all accounts, Choice has never seemed to be a Garrett favorite and Felix' durability makes me nervous as a 16 game feature back. I'm not really a huge fan of the names listed as 2nd rounder, but I would be pretty happy with Daniel Thomas or Ryan Williams.
This is basically what I been saying.
I am intrigued by Bruce Carter. You will probably need to wait on him a little bit and I am not sure if he is a true 3-4 inside linebacker but boy does he look like a player when healthy.
There are good WR's and RB's every year in the second or third round but I wonder if Dallas can get a faller in the third round at either spot. Would a Randall Cobb, Greg Little or some of the other guys make it to the third round. I am also intrigued by Randall Cobb and his resume. Typically you see a run at WR in the second round and I expect a lot of those guys to go off the board mid to late second.
If Dallas gets a O lineman in the first it sort of opens up their options for the second or third round.
Especially if they have confidence that Huff is a done deal to help shore up the secondary.
If they got RT and FS solved, probably the two biggest holes on the roster, they got a lot of flexibility.
Hell yea Bruce Carter, perfect fit.
I sayt pass on FS all together w/ the weak pool and Huff on board. Maybe look for Deunta or Quinton in that area so they dont have to waste money on Sensy
Yeah, when he kept saying "Keep your mind open!" (about 100 times), I was thinking maybe the RB and ILB early weren't just his speculation.
JJT:you need to take one of the 2 top OL Smith or Castanzo but give you a pass if you trade up to get Peterson. Dont tell me either one is cool, but on their board, one is rated higher than the other one, just pick the guy you want, just go get him. Dont be too cute or tricky, just go get the player you want.
JJT: dont get too tricky, norm asked about trading down. Talked about s jackson a beast compared to julius jones when they traded down and we all thought cowboys might draft packers qb etc... Funny you would mention that,if their is a good rb they will go get one, when norm mentioned 2nd round. My little man that is 7 years old can see cowboys dont have a special rb. If they think they can get a bell cow rb, go get him. We were like surprised or just happy to see felix get 16 carries, i just dont know if he can carry the rock as an every down back. So, no iwouldnt be surprised if cowboys draft a rb in 2nd round, that was even mentioned to me by someone this morning. My biggest surprise was when jerry jones said we dont need a qb in draft, you dontknow when kitna will fall off. Stephen McGee might be a good backup, but he is not a guy you can say romo is done we roll mcgee is out there.
At round 3, take a wr, outside of dez and miles, who could you trust at wr. None. You need to be romo friendly like you said Norm, help Romo in draft if you think you can get a rb, OG in the draft.
If this team is romo friendly, yeah, they need a OT to protect Romo high, and if they can find a OG to replace an old kosier, then go get that good OG if you think he can play in 2nd or 3rd round to protect Romo go get him. Cowboys i say need to get Tyron Smith period. Kosier would laugh if you told him to take offer at 4 million to sign for 2 years. Now, Columbo at that price might be managable.
Holland is probably your backup OG.
thats about it,
JJT and Norm...
Your column you wrote the other day?
My column the other day was basically “You’re a damn fool if you don’t take one of the two offensive tackles at #9”. The only pass I give you is if you can trade up and get Peterson, since he’s supposed to be this special player who can be a shut down CB or move to safety and be Ed Reed. Other than that, just take the guy. Take the guy you want, make a decision and put your stamp on it. Especially if the guy you want is widely accepted to be a good value for that pick. Don’t tell me either one of them is fine .. .one of them is rated higher on your board than the other. Even if it’s just a little, but one of them is rated higher. Now, talking to some guys this morning it seems that there is a little bit of a split. Some at the Ranch, and you can imagine who, like Smith a smidgen better. Some like Constonzo a smidgen better. But don’t get too tricky about it. Get the guy you want. Remember when the Cowboys tried to get tricky by passing on Steven Jackson to take Julius Jones and Jacob Rogers? What was that poppycock we were fed? “Oh, theyre all the same?”. No, they’re not all the same. Steven Jackson is a beast and Julius Jones is just a guy.
RB in the 2nd round?
Funny you should mention that. I was told this morning that they’re on the lookout for a RB. It’s a good draft for RB, and you can find one late. They’ve had success recently finding RBs in the 4th round like Barber. Wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Do you get a sneaky feeling the more you talk around the team that the Cowboys feel they don’t feel they have a true feature RB on this team?
That’s no secret. They have no stud RB on this team. Felix is just barely above just a guy. I like some of the things that Choice does, but he isn’t anything special. If they think someone can step in and be a bell cow, then give him the rock. We jump up and down and do cartwheels when Felix gets 16 carries per game. How ridiciulous is that? I was listening to Jerry say the other day they don’t need a QB. Uhm, did you watch your team last year? Kitna performed well last year, but he’s 38 years old. Did Stephen McGee look special? Say he’s just a guy, he might be a terrific #3 guy for a decade. A guy who has a little charisma and not screw anything up if he’s forced into a situation, but that doesn’t mean he’s a guy you want to fill in for Romo if he goes down for a lot of time.
What about WR? Do you think they are set there?
Absolutely not. Who do you trust other that Miles Austin and Dez Bryant? Not Roy Williams. Not Kevin Ogletree or Manny Johnson or any one else. Dude, there is a reason why they were 6-10 last year. This team has a lot of holes. If this team is Romo Friendly now, they need a draft that is “Romo Friendly”. That’s why you need a tackle. They need a guard too. You’re going to resign a 32 year old Kyle Kosier and think you’re set there? If you have a guard on the board that you think can plug and play as a starter, just take him.
That brings up a good point. So say you draft a Tyron Smith at #9 and then draft a guard in the 2nd round, do you then go to Kyle Kosier and say “Listen, we’ll give you a 2 year offer, and you can help break in and groom one of the young guys”.
You can, but Kyle Kosier will tell you you’re drunk. This isn’t the only raggedy offensive line in the league, Kosier could probably find a starting job next year with someone else. Now, you might could keep Marc Colombo could be a backup tackle, but why hold onto the past? You told us Sam Young is a nice young prospect, let him shine.
Norm is now saying, rumor is that New England wants to trade up to 9 to get Cameron Jordan and are offering 17 and 60 (late 2nd).