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Report: Antarctic Ice Growing, Not Shrinking

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Jordan55, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. Jordan55

    Jordan55 Active Member

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    It appears the bottom line is we have no clue as to climate change:bow:
    Waiting on the rebuttal from Al Bore

    Ice is expanding in much of Antarctica, contrary to the widespread public belief that global warming is melting the continental ice cap.

    The results of ice-core drilling and sea ice monitoring indicate there is no large-scale melting of ice over most of Antarctica, although experts are concerned at ice losses on the continent's western coast.

    Antarctica has 90 percent of the Earth's ice and 80 percent of its fresh water, The Australian reports. Extensive melting of Antarctic ice sheets would be required to raise sea levels substantially, and ice is melting in parts of west Antarctica. The destabilization of the Wilkins ice shelf generated international headlines this month.

    However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

    East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades."


    Antarctic Ice Sheet Likely to Collapse, New Data Show
    Climate Change Affecting Antarctic Winds, Penguins
    Australia Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

    "Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Allison said.

    Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Center shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years.

    A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded
  2. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    all that is going to happen now is the WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE crowd will continue the shift from global warming to climate change to keep the stupidity alive. extreme people always find something to be extreme about and it gets old.
  3. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Got a link to the original article? Thanks.
  4. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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  5. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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  6. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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  7. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    Now I am most certainly not on board with the global warming crowd, but here's some food for thought. I once read a book called "Physics for Future Presidents" by some physics professor who essentially explained the science behind many modern day political issues (oil, nuclear power, nuclear weapons, environmental matters, etc).

    In this book he describes a widespread belief among many scientists that global warming will ultimately increase the size of the Antarctic ice shelf and global cooling will reduce the size. Yes, you read that right (even though I know it sounds very counterintuitive). He even quotes a UN Study from 2001 the openly predicts global warming will increase the amount of ice down there.

    The quick explanation behind this theory is that global warming increases evaporation in the tropics, which in turn increases global precipitation. Since precipitation in Antarctica tends to be snow, we experience an increase in the size of the ice shelf because the snow falls at a rate greater than any melting that occurs.

    I always think about this when I read about the ice down there and I just wanted to provide some food for thought for everyone in here :)
  8. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    That sounds like an interesting book, I'll have to see if I can pick it up.

    I've heard something similar to what you were talking about though. It was along the lines of global warming would actually end up causing the next ice age. Like you said, it sounds ridiculous because it is so counter-intuitive, but there is science behind the claim.
  9. SuspectCorner

    SuspectCorner Bromo

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  10. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    I read it very quickly because I was enjoying it so much. He also discusses the physics behind energy and why oil works as well as it does. But, of course, oil is not renewable so he also talks about other solutions and why some of them are very good ideas and other just aren't practical. Considering the entire book deals with political hot button issues, I think he does a great job giving a level headed and fair approach.

    He has written a series of these books, but I think some were in the form of college texts. The one I read which was intended for the general public was

    http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Futur...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240078476&sr=8-1
  11. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Its always a good idea to go back as far as possible to see where the data came from. Now for sites of course like Daily Kos and Mother Jones and Fact check that is pretty worthless but otherwise.....
  12. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    As I've been told repeatedly, according to the modern conventions and forms of science, a theory or premise must be falsifiable in order to be scientifically valid. In other words, a theory is only considered scientific if it can be disproved through a doable experiment.

    Thus far, I have yet to hear any proponent of global warming explain how it can be falsified.

    When evidence arises that might disprove global warming, its proponents always find a way to incorporate it into the general theory. Consequently...

    ...when temperatures increase, it's because of global warming.

    ...when temperatures decrease, it's because of global warming.

    ...when ice increases, it's because of global warming.

    ....when ice decreases, it's because of global warming.

    In essence, no matter what occurs, it's because of global warming.
  13. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    That's why it's called "climate change", the idea of "global warming" went out the window a long time ago. People against the idea of climate change just keep going back to that term because everytime the weather gets cold, they can declare the entire ideology is BS.

    I personally do not know if it's true or false, I'm not willing to disregard either side of the argument but it is commonly recognized that the climate is indeed changing. The ONLY real argument is between those that say it's man made or a part of the natural cycle, and then there are those that say the answer lays somewhere in the middle.
  14. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    Exactly..!! When boatloads of evidence came in to show global warming was not taking place at the levels that were predicted, they had to come up with a new term :D
  15. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    You just made my case for me.

    Climate change will occur regardless of whether or not mankind is here. Again, I ask the same question: How can global warming (i.e. climate change) be falsified?
  16. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    Well, the effect of the mechanisms behind global warming can be falsified. If I state my hypothesis as "The amount of CO2 that humans introduce to the atmosphere causes global warming at a rate that is environmentally destructive" then the falsifiability requirement is met. Of course, I would also have to define "environmentally destructive".
  17. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    All men die, whether or not they smoke, do drugs and/or refuse to exercise, does that mean those three things don't impact the length and quality of their lives?

    Again, the question isn't "Is the climate changing?", it's what our impact is on that change, if any at all.

    If your argument is that climate change isn't falsifiable, then claiming that everything is a natural part of things also is not falsifiable.

    The idea that something has to be proven falsifiable is just one train of thought, it's not necessarily globally accepted. It's meant to leave open the idea that all things are possible, unless proven otherwise, and here you are using it as ammunition to try and show that nothing is in fact possible, that everything is as it should be, there is some irony there.
  18. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    This is the key point. You're only informing me of the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. You're not making any specific predictions as to the consequences of CO2 in the atmosphere.

    According to the modern scientific community, in order for a theory to be scientifically valid, it must be a model that makes specific, falsifiable predictions. The current global warming model seems to lack the necessary level of specificity for making falsifiable predictions.

    Does this mean global warming is invalid? Not at all. Truth is not bound to any epistemological framework.

    However, if we're going to say that global warming is scientifically valid despite the fact that it makes no falsifiable prediction, there will be consequences elsewhere in science -- consequences that I won't get into here.:)
  19. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

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    In the case of smoking and drug abuse, the scientific community has actually observed, studied, and analyzed their effects on the human body. As a result, scientists have been able to create models that that can predict with a high level of accuracy the health effects of cigarettes and drugs. These models have withstood the rigors of falsification, and are universally accepted.

    This simply isn't the case with global warming -- hence why the model is so frequently subject to change and revision.

    It depends on your definition of natural. If you take a rigidly naturalistic view of the universe, you deem everything natural, including mankind's interaction with his environment.

    However, regardless of how we define natural, we're still addressing the same question: To what extent can mankind's current CO2 emissions transform his environment into something that is harmful or threatening to his own existence?

    Actually, it's the prevailing "train of thought" in modern science. For the most part, the scientific community at a global level accepts the notion that prediction and falsification are necessary components of any scientifically valid theory. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this position. I'm merely pointing it out.

    And I'm not "trying" to do anything here. I'm merely expounding upon some of the possible shortcomings of climate change theory from a scientific standpoint.
  20. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    When Al Gore is the face of a movement,and the media discredits and demonizes those who think otherwise(see Freeman Dyson),then you should know what's really going on.
    Al Gore stands to make billions of dollars in carbon credits,while having a home that consumes 20 times the energy of a regular home...you don't see him driving a Prius either,do you?
    Also,notice the name change,from Global Warming to Climate Change,so they are covered both ways.
    It's all a hoax...a blatant hoax.

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