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RGIII or Andrew Luck

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by Sam I Am, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    Uhm,

    The year I'm specifically talking about is Culpepper's career year in 2004, when he threw for 4700 yards and led the league in several throwing categories. Chris Carter had already retired. Randy Moss only caught 49 passes for 700+ yards because he was hampered with a hammy injury all year. The team's leading receivers were Jermaine Wiggins, Nate Burleson and Marcus Robinson. Yes, THAT Jermaine Wiggins, Nate Burleson and Marcus Robinson.



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  2. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    Well if that's your argument it is even more irrelevant than first surmised, comparing a failed veteran's best season with a rookie sensation is outright moot, in fact it's illogical
  3. DanteEXT

    DanteEXT Well-Known Member

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    Now correct my math if I'm wrong here.... but I believe 222 of 308 is closer to 72.1% than 81%.
  4. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Those stats you posted are absurd. I am not going to diminish what Griffin has done this year as a rookie. Looks good to me so far, but it is silly using completions as a way to determine if one QB is throwing short(under 10 yards) more often than another QB. That is a poor use of stats.

    The better comparison is to use pass attempts. Compare how many pass attempts are thrown under 10 yards to the total number pass attempts for each QB. Griffin(66.2%) attempts a higher percentage of passes under 10 yards than Tom Brady(64.3%), Matt Ryan(61.7%), Peyton Manning(59.1%) or Aaron Rodgers(63.5%). Those guys just complete a higher percentage of those short passes than Griffin.

    Right now on just the pass attempts under 10 yards the completion percentages for these QBs are 71.2%(Griffin), 75%(Brady), 74.7%(Ryan), 76.6%(Manning) and 73.8%(Rodgers).

    Completing a higher percentage of those short passes is not the same thing as attempting more of those short passes. That is a poor usage of stats.
  5. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    What can I say? When you're right you're right. It is unfair to compare RG3 to Culpepper when RG3 really hasn't done enough in his career to deserve the comparison yet.
  6. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    Thats within a margin of error, no? 66% to 64% for Brady? So essentially 2 percent more of his passes? That is a huge difference?

    PFF has another interesting take today

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/04/race-for-rookie-of-the-year-week-13/

  7. CATCH17

    CATCH17 1st Round Pick

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    He adjusts to his talent and tries to put them in the best position with his playcalling. He may not be the best playcaller in the league but he's a heck of a lot better then the clown we have.
  8. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    Holy Cripes, just looked up RG3's splits ... 22% of his pass attempts are behind the LOS for the season!!!! 66% of his pass attempts have been 9 yards or less. Literally, almost 1 out of every 4 pass attempts is a screen pass or dump off.
  9. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say it was a huge difference. I said it was a better way to represent which QB throws more short passes than the stats you had previously provided.

    Also, I am not certain it is within margin of error when one QB has many more overall pass attempts than another QB. Brady(460) has attempted 141.5% more passes than Griffin(325). You can't just extrapolate Griffin's pass attempts out and expect the percentages to remain the same, so that will impact the margin of error.
  10. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    So thusly Brady has thrown more and completed a higher percentage of short passes, which is typical of an offense with spread concepts.

    Again, this is a silly canard. RG3 has been incredibly effective, to a Brady/Manningesque level this year from the pocket.

    The fact that he has the added dimension of being able to run and a dominant running back in Alfred Morris has only made this offense better.

    I would love it if every quarter was the dazzling show that it was in the 2nd quarter on Thanksgiving vs your overrated secondary with deep bombs and back of the shoulder passes. It simply hasn't had to be thus far because of the effective running game (like it was last night)

    To minimize the impact of the offense when you compare the same types of passes to other passers (as PFF has done) is just plain silly

    The pistol, similar to the shotgun in the '70s, is an evolution in the offensive game, which is why you see Seattle /San Fran and gasp even Indy running it from time to time. All those teams have QBs who can run and pass very well.

    At one point the "forward pass" was considered a gimmick. Football changes and now you have QBs with the skill to not only run real fast but also throw the ball accurately and on time. RG3 simply has the most elite skillset with the passing, accuracy, intelligence and running. Kapernick will be another, as will Luck.
  11. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    Only 13% of Brady's pass attempts have been behind LOS. (Luck's is around 10%, as is Romo).

    This is a far cry from 22% of RG3's.

    No !! Can't have Brady comparison !!! Not yours!!!
  12. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    Easily I can.

    Brady is completeing 80% of his passes within 10 yards.

    Along with that BB has taken Oregon and Florida concepts and added it to the Pats offense this year. It is very much a shotgun spread "air raid" "college" attack now.
  13. Aikbach

    Aikbach Well-Known Member

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    A perfectly asinine follow up post, at least you're consistent.
  14. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    And none of that has anything to do with what I posted. I just think the stat comparison that was used was a poor way to measure which QB throws more short passes. Plain and simple. I didn't say anything negative about Griffin and what he has accomplished. It is just a simple comparison. Griffin throws more short passes per attempt than the other QBs that were brought up in that misleading comparison. Not by a whole lot in some cases, but he does throw more. Those stat comparisons were false and misleading.

    I disagree with this statement. Griffin has had a great rookie campaign. No doubt. I just can't put a QB that attempts 11 fewer passes per game than those two guys on the same plane. Part of what makes Brady and Manning great is they are asked to do a lot, which is why they attempt a large number of passes. The more passes you attempt, the more opportunities for bad things to happen and they have to overcome that. Griffin may get to that point during his career as more things are thrust upon him, but for now I don't think he has played at a Brady/Manningesque level. He has been great for what he has been asked to do, but he hasn't been asked to do what they do.
  15. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Completing and attempting are two different things. Simple concept.
  16. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    If Brady were attempting 50% or 45% I think it would make a difference to me

    64% to 66% really doesn't. Essentially both are attempting 2/3 of their passes within 10 yards of the LOS
  17. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    You don't seem to grasp the difference between complete and attempt.
  18. InmanRoshi

    InmanRoshi Zone Scribe

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    I hate the fact that we can't get splits better than 10 yards. Pretty sure there is a significance difference in degree of difficulty between attempting a 9 yard seem route in a tight window between multiple defenders and completing a bubble screen.
  19. myslamsareolder

    myslamsareolder Member

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    Griffin has had multiple games with less than 15 completions (he averages 18)... almost every game is under 20. He also averages 9 rushes... and has had games where he basically rushes as much as passes. Yes he only has a few ints, but remember he has about a billion fumbles the skins have just been lucky to recover them. Every big play he has is to the widest open receivers ever... that crap won't last. Is he smart enough and talented enough to overcome all of that? Yes, but the coaches need to change the way they use him. If not he WILL be Vick 2.0 (that will be totally on coaching though if it happens because he does have to poise and arm to be a pocket qb)
  20. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is close. Again I never said otherwise. Still, you keep claiming that the other comparison using completions is concrete evidence that Brady uses more short passes. Yet those percentages are also close.

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