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Romney supports the war effort fully... or does he.

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by jterrell, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Quote of the Day

    Iraq war supporter and GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney, asked today about the fact that not one of his five sons has served in the U.S. military: "One of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected because they think I'd be a great president."

    Romney noted that one of his sons is driving around Iowa in an R.V. to help spread the Romney message. Which is like driving a Humvee through Baghdad, only different.
  2. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    Obviously, he has no obligation to force his sons to enter the military... but that is one lame excuse right there. :rolleyes:

    Sometimes people need to think about how something is going to sound before the words come out of their mouth.
  3. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Agreed.

    I will not lie. I have had trouble with the ideas of many candidates never having spent any time in the military yet are so cavalier in what to do with them. Or never having any children going in the military when they are promoting that other people's children be sent off to war on extended tours.

    Nobody can force one's child into the military...well I guess they can if the child is in legal trouble but you get what I mean.

    However saying what he said was about idiotic. Then again I think he is the Republicans version of John Kerry from the last election. Mr. Flip Flop.
  4. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    August 8, 2007

    Questions About Romney’s Sons and Military Service

    By Michael Luo


    CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa — It is a question that Mitt Romney has gotten before on the campaign trail. Sometimes it is asked innocently; sometimes with a clear edge.
    A woman at an Ask Mitt Anything forum earlier today in Iowa raised the question again, asking whether any of Mr. Romney’s five sons are serving in the military, adding pointedly, “If none of them are, how do they plan to support this war on terrorism by enlisting in our U.S. military?”
    Although his campaign said his remarks were taken out of context, Mr. Romney’s response is drawing criticism, because he said, in part, “one of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping to get me elected.”

    Mr. Romney expressed appreciation for the country’s “volunteer army” and said “that’s the way we’re going to keep it. He explained his sons had made
    different career choices in life and had not chosen to serve in the military but he mentioned a niece whose husband he said had just been called up by the National Guard.

    He added that he respects and values “very highly those who make a decision to serve in the military” and referenced the “surge of support” for members of the Armed Services he recently called for on the campaign trail. As part of that call, he personally donated $25,000 to various organizations that support military personnel. But he wound up his response with this: “It’s remarkable how we can show our support for our nation, and one of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping to get me elected, because they think I’d be a great president. My son, Josh, bought the family Winnebago and has visited 99 counties, most of them with his three kids and his wife. And I respect that and respect all of those in the way they serve this great country.”

    The Romney sons are each working in various capacities on the campaign. Their blog, The Five Brothers, is a prominent on their father’s Web site. Mr. Romney’s oldest son, Tagg, quit his job in marketing for the Los Angeles Dodgers to work on the campaign full-time. The others are squeezing in time from their regular jobs to do fund-raising and campaign appearances for their father. Josh, 31, a real estate developer in Salt Lake City, has been driving an R.V., dubbed the “Mitt Mobile” to all 99 counties of Iowa. He set foot in Jasper, his 99th county, today.

    Driving from Des Moines to Cedar Rapids today to meet up with their parents for the final Ask Mitt Anything forum of the day, Tagg and Josh said their father’s remarks needed to be considered in context.
    They expressed respect for those who had served in the military and said they had simply chosen different routes in life. “The military is a voluntary thing,” said Tagg Romney, one of three Romney sons who graduated from Harvard Business School. “I’ve got a ton of respect for those who do it and make a huge sacrifice for this country.


    I chose a career 16 years ago that took me down a different path.
    “If I was ever called upon to serve my country, I wouldn’t think twice,” he said. “I would be there in a heartbeat.”
    Josh Romney said his family is doing what it can to support the troops. “My dad’s made a big point of trying to support the troops,” he said, adding military service is “just something none of us have done.”
    But when asked whether they thought the question was unfair, Tagg Romney said, “there’s no such thing as an unfair question in politics.”

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/questions-about-romneys-sons-and-military-service/
  5. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I too have a very difficult time electing a President that has never served in the military. You just can't understand unless you have done it.
  6. Eric_Boyer

    Eric_Boyer Well-Known Member

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    This happened in Bettendorf, IA yesterday, and I was there. It was a John Edwards supporter that asked the question - which I found ironic.

    Mitt was giving out free breakfast so I showed up in my Ron Paul shirt. He gave me a dirty look and I smiled and winked at him. That loosened hiim up a bit, he smiled back at me.

    I'm not looking to start trouble - except with Guliani. Just getting name recognition out.

    Anyway - a fascinating tidbit is Mitt's dad ran for president and was doing very well - until he flip-flopped on the issue of the War in Vietnam. He initially was for it, but as public sentiment changed, his views conveniently changed as well and he came out against it. He claimed he was brainwashed by pro-pwar generals. Americans tend to not vote for candidates that are easily brainwashed
  7. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Well at least Romney's son's support him...Unlike Guliani's son.:D
  8. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    I think it's idiotic to criticise someone, because their son/daughter isn't serving in the military. Their own lack of service is fair game.
  9. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    TOO FUNNY! :bow:
  10. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives.

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    I guess that leaves Hilary out :)
  11. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    There is some merit to that but not entirely.

    There is an entire generation of politicians who advise heavily in favor of war mongering but yet do not encourage their children to serve at all.

    These politicians can send your kids to war so what there kids do is a talking point.

    Everyone who send me 50 bucks I honor and appreciate you, now hurry out and do it today!!!
  12. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    How do you know that his kids simply didn't want to join? Kids normally do the opposite of what their parents want.
  13. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    If thats the case then there are mnay more appropriate responses than what was uttered.

    I have kids, I understand some level of rebellion, I am also not stupid. If military service was pushed in the home it is extremely unlikely 0 out 5 kids would have served.

    Romney is Mormon and I'd be willing to bet he supports the Church doctrine on service and his kids followed those aspects.
  14. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    I honestly do not know much about the Mormon religion.

    My father was in the Air Force and didn't want any of us joining the military. He wanted all of us to go straight to college. Two out of three of us joined the service. I bet even Mormon kids can be rebellious.

    The other thing I find ironic from the left is that none of you complained about Chelsea Clinton not joining the military. If you're going to condemn, you should be consistant.
  15. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    Romney Makes Major Mistake

    http://news.aol.com/elections-blog/2007/08/08/romney-makes-major-mistake/

    Posted Aug 8th 2007 4:10PM by Scott
    Filed under: President 2008, Republicans, Gaffes, Mitt Romney

    Mitt RomneyI slammed Barack Obama on his various gaffes last week so now it's time to take my medicine and smack one of my own. Mitt Romney, a lower first-tier/upper second-tier candidate actually said this today:

    "The good news is that we have a volunteer Army and that's the way we're going to keep it," Romney told some 200 people gathered in an abbey near the Mississippi River that had been converted into a hotel. "My sons are all adults and they've made decisions about their careers and they've chosen not to serve in the military and active duty and I respect their decision in that regard."

    OK, I can live with that, the military isn't for everyone. While I was in (serving aboard a ship only a crew member could love), there were people I'd never want next to me if it came to a fight. Those who don't want to serve shouldn't. But Mitt didn't stop there, he added this:

    "One of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected because they think I'd be a great president."

    Uh, Mitt? I can't believe you actually meant to say that. Let's see, sleeping in the dirt, dodging IEDs and battling al-Qaida versus traipsing around Iowa trying to get people to donate money to you. I see how they are both "showing support for our nation."

    Romney is not polling well and is not a very likable guy. This makes me like him even less and as I said about Obama, this is exactly the type of statement that makes me think that he's just not presidential material.

    From this veteran to you Mitt, I thank your sons for their great service to our nation. Their vote-gathering skills will serve the greater good of every citizen of the U.S... or not.
  16. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    That was a seriously idiot comment by Romney. :lmao2:
  17. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    a hater post but prolly mostly if not entirely factual.....

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/questions-about-romneys-sons-and-military-service/


    Oh, Romney… “your son’s ‘helping you get elected” give me a break! Your family has NEVER served in the military… zip…. Self centered Mitt your ego is showing. McCain’s son is serving, his pop is running!

    I thought it would be interesting to put together some the major issues, quotes, and flips and flops done by Mr. Romney, so I did a brief search, and was astounded at the number. Readers at the NYT’s may find the incredible number an interesting read. Mitt needs to answer these also!
    _________________________________________________
    “I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush” Romney said,” on Monday rated himself as conservative as the late President Reagan”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbX4RkGlYnk flip, splash, splash, flopper, flop

    Mitt Romney on the speech he was to give it “follow in the footsteps of John F. Kennedy”

    I’m not running for “pastor but President” lifted from Obama speech

    Flip Flops and Shell Games

    Mitt’s views of America during the time Mitt head of the SLC Olympics” Around the world it was like, ‘Boy, those Americans, always beating their chests.’ This is not our time to talk about how great America is. It’s not designed to be a patriotic American display.” –Guardian quote

    While Romney bashes immigration bill on campaign trail, his economic adviser Mankiw signs letter calling it “the most far-reaching and thoughtful reform . . . in four decades.” Wall Street Journal –

    “I am absolutely committed toward keeping pro-abortion laws”

    “The gay community needs more support from the Republican Party,'’ Romney said in an interview

    “I would welcome the overturning of Roe vs. Wade”

    If we are to achieve the goals we share, we must make equality for gays and lesbians a mainstream concern… I promise more “effective leadership” than Kennedy on winning full equality for gays and lesbians… and I oppose a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and I support gays serving openly in the military. My opponent (Ted Kennedy) cannot do this. I can and will”

    “Romney now thinks gays ought to stay in the closet. He has changed his mind”

    (— o.k. more ‘effective leadership’, means he was” effectively” for protecting straight marriages, right? lol)

    Mitt said “I don’t line up with the NRA”
    Later… “ I’m a card carrying NRA member

    “The Democratic Party brass target Mitt Romney because they see him as the greatest threat to them in 2008” - Madden on Mitt
    ^Mitt targeted Obama in the Republican debates….uhmmm…. that must mean……

    His three legged stool is an intelligent tool for a visual aid ; a snowman is not

    “In a Planned Parenthood questionnaire he filled out during his 2002 gubernatorial run, Romney checked ‘yes’ to a question asking, “Do you support the teaching of responsible, age-appropriate, factually accurate health and sexuality education, including information about both abstinence and contraception, in public schools” answer resurfaced in 2005 ,when pro choice groups Romney was criticized Romney when he began to push an abstinence-heavy focus on sex education. Romney’s spokesman was quoted as saying then at the time Romney still backed a “comprehensive” approach on teaching public school kids about sex.”

    Obama said. “He told Planned Parenthood at their conference yesterday that “it’s the right thing to do to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools.”

    “Governor Mitt Romney expressed support yesterday for President Bush’s approach and warned that a premature withdrawal of American troops would inspire terrorists worldwide’—Aug. 2005

    “Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney said Saturday he is willing to “change course in Iraq”– as some Republican senators have now done– and is keeping an eye on the recent troop surge there. But it is too early to judge whether the surge is a success or failure, he said. Romney spoke before about 100 people at an ‘Ask Mitt Anything’ campaign event at the Palm Beach County Convention Center.”

    Allegations Mitt ‘bussed in Old Mormons” to vote in Young Republican Straw vote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznM6ZSFRtA
    *******Is that who I think it is in the black suit and red flower on his lapel? Is that Mitt fake cop?— rewind look again, pause

    Romney against porno— yet it’s O.K. for Marriott– Porn is o.k. so long a business can make money. All Mormons knew about Marriott being the first to put porn in his hotels, it was common knowledge.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bwKzLx8hB0&mode=related &search=

    There’s more but the post would be huge!

    — Posted by Ellie
  18. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    I am not slamming Chelsea because I am an not quite that liberal. She is a woman. I am also not slamming her because she isn't driving around in an RV and supporting a pro-war candidate.

    Mormons support mandatory church service through missionary assignments.

    I have a friend who is a Mormon. He dated Danny White's daughter(the real one, lol).

    And I am really just posting what others say moreso than slamming, there is plenty of it going on that has nothing to do with me:)

    There are arguments amongst Christians that Mormonism is a means to making money much like the Church of Scientology. Milt's Dad George is an interesting study if anyone wants ot take time there.
  19. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/romney/articles/part1_side_2/?page=2

    Mormon church obtained Vietnam draft deferrals for Romney, other missionaries

    By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 24, 2007

    As the Vietnam War raged in the 1960s, Mitt Romney received a deferment from the draft as a Mormon "minister of religion" for the duration of his missionary work in France, which lasted two and a half years.
    Article Tools

    Before and after his missionary deferment, Romney also received nearly three years of deferments for his academic studies. When his deferments ended and he became eligible for military service in 1970, he drew a high number in the annual lottery that determined which young men were drafted. His high number ensured he was not drafted into the military.

    The deferments for Mormon missionaries became increasingly controversial in the late 1960s, especially in Utah, leading the Mormon Church and the government to limit the number of church missionaries who could put off their military service. That agreement called for each church ward, or church district, to designate one male every six months to be exempted from potential duty for the duration of his missionary work.

    Romney's home state was Michigan, making his 4-D exemption as a missionary all but automatic because of the relatively small number of Mormon missionaries from that state. It might have been more difficult in Utah, where the huge Mormon population meant that there were sometimes more missionaries than available exemptions. Most missions lasted two and a half years, as Romney's did.


    Barry Mayo, who was counselor to the bishop of the ward in Pontiac, Michigan, where Romney attended church, recalled in an interview that wards were allowed to exempt one missionary every six months from the draft. He said that he could not recall any time in which more than one potential draftee sought an exemption in the ward in a six-month period, so Romney's deferment was never in doubt.
    "I was aware of the fact that there was an agreement of some sort of between the church and the Selective Service because there were some wards mostly in the West where the congregation was large and the number of youth was large," Mayo said. "The circumstances were very different here. Our congregation was small and the number of youth were small. To the best of my knowledge we never had a situation where we had more than two young men wanting to go in any one year... So I don't believe that we ever had to discourage someone from going on a mission because he was above that two-per-year limit."

    Mayo said no records are available from the period that would show how Romney's deferment was handled. But he said he recalled "the conclusion was `we really don't have to worry about [exceeding the quota] because we were never in that situation.' "
    Article Tools


    By serving as a missionary and being given the deferment, Romney ensured that he would not be drafted from July 1966 until February 1969. Romney's draft record from the time describes him as "minister of religion or divinity student." Mayo said the church would have considered Romney a minister.

    Romney, who has said he would have served if he had been drafted, shed some light on his view of the matter in a recent interview with the Globe.

    "I really don’t recall thinking about political positions when I was knocking at the door in France" as a missionary, Romney said. "I was supportive of my country. I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

    At the same time, Romney said, he was influenced by the statement of his father, then-Michigan Governor George W. Romney, who said in 1967 that he had been "brainwashed" by US officials about Vietnam. "When my dad said that he had been wrong about Vietnam and that it was a mistake and they had been brainwashed and so forth, I certainly trusted him and believed him," Romney said.

    The exemption for Mormon missionaries created controversy at the time. Non-Mormons in Utah filed a lawsuit against the federal government in 1968. The suit was still in court two years later, at a time when "the church and the Selective Service System work hand-in-hand in deferring the missionaries," according to an article from the period published by The New York Times.

    Richard Leedy, the lawyer who brought the suit, said in a telephone interview that he did so because "the substantial number of deferments to missionaries made the likelihood of us non-Mormons going to Vietnam a lot more likely."

    Separately, Romney's draft service was deferred due to his status as a full-time student for about three years.

    Romney registered with the Selective Service in April 1965 but was not considered readily available for military service until December 1970. His name was then put into the lottery based on an individual's birthday, and he drew the number 300 at a time when no one drawing higher than 195 was drafted.

    "When Governor Romney's deferment for college and missionary service ended, he made himself available for military service, and his name went into the lottery, but he was not selected," Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom said via e-mail.

    Michael Kranish can be reached at kranish@globe.com
  20. AtlCB

    AtlCB Active Member

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    I brought up Chelsea, because Clinton also sent soldiers to war (Sudan, Kosovo, etc.). I think both sides are very hypocritical. I believe it is hypocritical for the Dems to complain about Mitt not forcing his children to join the military when Bill didn't force his in.

    The failure of both parties to be honest about these types of things is another reason I will never join one of them.

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