Romo or RGIII?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CyberB0b, Dec 5, 2012.

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  1. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    I guess Jimmy didn't realize Griffin was a one-trick, no-passing pony when he said he'd pick RG3 as his first player if he were starting a team...

    But what does Jimmy know.

  2. DMAC

    DMAC Member

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    It's an opinion in part, and factual in part, but most in the football watching world would agree that RG3 is better in every listed category.

    The speed and arm strength are measurable. RG3 far and away on both.

    Elusiveness is somewhat measurable, and while Romo is very good at this, I see RG3 being even better.

    Accuracy - lot of factors in this when throwing to receivers, because drops or wrong routes look bad on the QB's stats, as Romo has experienced many times this year. But throwing at targets, planted or on the move, I stiill give the edge to RG3.

    Decision making - of course debatable, and somewhat limited based on the players around you as to what you can do in a split second decision, but Romo has been bottom third his entire career in decision making, so I still say RG3 here.
  3. CowboyChris

    CowboyChris Well-Known Member

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    ok heres my 2 cents....i havent watched alot of Redskin games this year, but i have seen the last 2, and i must say i came away very impressed, infact a little jealous.

    BUT as a poster said earlier (Catch17) if we are swapping Romo for RG3, RG3's playbook better be coming with him, there is no way I would take RG3 and plug him into Jason Garrett's offense.

    Lastly lets not get to big in a hurry to annoint RG3 just yet, i also believe he is taking to many shots along the way, if anyone has the gifs of the Hatcher and Ware hits on him...he wont last long.

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not surprised at these numbers. I beleive Shannahan took over in Denver in 91? That year, Elways QBRT dipped but that's more then likely due to the fact that he was learning a new offense. In 92, he posted better numbers then he ever had previously.
  5. M'Kevon

    M'Kevon A Love Supreme

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    Despite the number or opportunities the scouts have, it still leaves only 2 to 3 days at best to implement a new scheme. Unless it is something simple - bringing an extra LB to the line, or an altered blitz scheme, a team cannot remake a defense on a week to week basis.
  6. Ken

    Ken Well-Known Member

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    Comical question.

    RG III had the greatest 160 yard passing game in the history of mankind and threw 1 td that was wide open and fumbled for another.

    I'm impressed.

    All of this love for a guy running a gimmick offense that is highly scripted, that gives him few reads, that has what little reads he has wide open......mind boggling. Also mind boggling that NFL defensive coordinators haven't figured out a way to stop this yet.

    Having said all that...he is an outstanding young man, with a rifle arm and amazing speed.

    I still wouldn't take him over Romo.
  7. M'Kevon

    M'Kevon A Love Supreme

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    Apparently, you never watched Young or SF play.

    What disqualifies the comparison was the offenses RGIII and Young played in. SF did not run specific option runs for Young. Occasional naked bootlegs, but not runs. Young got the vast majority of his carries scrambling out of passing situations.

    RGIII gets most of his carries on specific run option plays. That's what makes him dangerous. Young's left arm, mobility within the pocket, decision making skills, and Jerry Rice made him dangerous.

    RGIII has had a good to great season. But the option is going to be his eventual downfall, unless the coaching changes.
  8. M'Kevon

    M'Kevon A Love Supreme

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    Granted. But you are describing a sprinter or RB.

    So did Ryan Leaf. And Ja'marcus Russell
    Not true. RGIII has not had to scan the field and go to his 2nd, 3rd, 4th option. Very rarely does he look off his first option. A great number of passes are either deep routes or first option passes to RBs and screens. As of now, his ability to hit intermediate routes is a weakness. Not very accurate.

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think you can make this statement with any degree of accuracy. I will say that it's very possible that at some point, RG3 may reach a level in his career where he might outdistance Romo in these areas but not now, not today.

    I think it's fair to say that RG3 has a superior arm to Romo. That's a fair statement IMO>

    Today, it's debatable IMO. What are you asking each of these QBs to do? In the Cowboy offense, Garrett is asking Romo to hang in the pocket and buy time, extend plays. In Shannahan's offense, it is OK for RG3 to break the pocket and get upfield. This is why I say it greatly depends on the offense you are in. If RG3 played in the Cowboy offense, a lot of what he does in Washington would not be acceptable. One thing that Romo does to better then just about any QB in the League, and that includes RG3 is to throw from different angles and trajectories. He can throw from all sorts of different platforms. RG3 does not do that nearly as well. This really helps Romo in the Dallas offense because it allows him to extend and make plays without scrambling. Now, it also hurts him on occasion and this is when you see Dallas fans complain most loudly. It's a double edged sword but it is a strength for Romo and RG3 does not have this. However, RG3 is a much better down field runner then is Romo.

    The statistics do not seem to support this position. Both players have a completion percentage of 67.1 this year. Now, I think we can both agree that Romo is playing in a much more difficult offensive scheme and that his OL and WRs are not always great. I think that at best, you can say that it's a push but honestly, I think that right now, if you put RG3 in the Dallas offense, there is no way he completes that kind of percentage. If you put Romo in Washington's offense, his completion % probably goes up.

    I think you are looking at this in the wrong way. I don't know how you come up with the statistic of "Bottom Third" so I can't say that this is true or not but I can say this. The offense itself is much easier in Washington then in Dallas. There for, the Decision Making Process is much easier in Washington then in Dallas. I don't even think this can be questioned. Romo usually goes to the right place with the ball. His problem is that Dallas almost always puts it all on Romo to win from an Offensive point of view. That's a lot of pressure on one player. Not an excuse, just the reality of the situation. This is definitely not the case for RG3. You have to ask yourself, if RG3 was in that same situation, would he make the right decisions as often as he does in Washington? I think that the answer would be no, simply because he has not seen as much football. That's just a fact. The circumstances are different so you have to context that. RG3 is in the best possible situation he can be in in Washington. To his credit, he is making the most of it but that's a very different thing then saying that he is a better decision maker. You really can't say that until he has been in the same situation as Romo has been.
  10. Clove

    Clove Shrinkage

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    I remember saying I'd take a look at Peyton Manning last year and people nearly put a hit out on me. Hmmm, 9-3 vs 6-6.

    Fans are too emotional to be intelligent sometimes.
  11. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    If people knew what they think they knew, they'd be in the game

    None of us here, or on any MB has any idea what calls are made from play caller to QB, what the checks, what the hot routes are, what the game plan was for certain situations, what the injury situation is like and why a certain player is not being highlighted, etc, which is why I never tend to critique play calling.

    To say that people actually know what Andrew Luck is doing compared to RG3 or Russel Wilson is silly. They don't unless they are in those meeting rooms with Luck/Arians, RG3/Kyle Shanahan, etc.

    And the posters who have a better idea of the nuances of professional football (CouchScout/AdamJt) aren't pontificating in this debate
  12. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    RGIII is vastly outperforming his offensive line

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    What a load of crap.

    The call has nothing to do with understanding the offensive philosophy of an Offense itself. I may not know who the hot receiver is or what the exact blacking strategy is on any given play but I do know that in a Shannahan Offense, it's a zone blocking scheme that utilizes smaller, more mobile offensive lineman and I know that his offense works off of the short passing game and a mobile QB who can role out along with a heavy does of cut back running and play action. I understand the offense. I understand how it works. You don't need to be an OC to understand how the offense works and you definitely don't need to understand what the blocking calls are to decide if one offensive scheme is more complex then another.

    At this point, I see no reason to take you seriously on your previous statement. There are definitely posters on this board who understand the game well enough to determine what offense might be more complex then another and which offense might be more QB friendly.

    Let me ask you a question. Do you go to HS Football games? Do you ever check out College Football games? Do you go to Skins games? When you do this, are you able to tell the difference in complexity at each level?

    If the answer is yes, then I must ask you, how is it that you can ascertain the difference in each Offenses Complexity? You are definitely not a Pro Coach or Player.

    Is it, perhaps, because it doesn't take a Pro to understand the things that you can see and determine for yourself? Things such as the complexity of a given Offense vs another Offensive scheme?

    I think that the answer has to be yes here. I value good discussion but you have to be able to be honest and objective with yourself if you are going to have a good discussion. You can't let it be a matter of being right. That's really all I am saying.
  14. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Well-Known Member

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    This is inaccurate. Right now, 60% of the plays have been within the pistol formation. He often has two throwing options out of this formation, but the first option is open frequently due to defenses being slow to recognize when he's going to throw. A lot of the screens you're thinking of, is RG3 looking off his first read and throwing to his second option, a screen in the flat. He's thrown passes from the more traditional drop, but usually not in the pistol formation, he's rolling out and throwing with multiple options. Kyle Shanahan may call an actual screen play where the WR screen is the first option once or twice a game.

    Intermediate routes are not a weakness, in fact, he throws it better than anything else. When he throws from the pistol formation, he's consistently hit receivers in stride on 12-15 yard strikes down the middle of the field. His first TD to Garçon against the Saints is a good example, Garçon also scored against your team with the same play on Thanksgiving. If anything, his intermediate passes have been the area that his receivers have dropped passes the most. Passes right on the money. I think there was a thread in the nfl forum recently that posted a video of all the drops the skins receivers had in that steelers game. There were ten drops in that game and the majority of them were in the intermediate range.
  15. SkinsHokieFan

    SkinsHokieFan Well-Known Member

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    Thats an absurd question. Clearly at different levels of football there is far different complexity.

    At the same level, the NFL, you nor I have any idea what a player is being asked to do.

    Is Luck struggling to read defenses and is he forcing throws which accounts for him having 4 times as many INT's as RG3.

    Does Romo not understand what the scheme is asking of him which is why he throws the ball right at London Fletcher?

    Does RG3 simply get that a play is not there and throw the ball away better?

    To me, making a scheme "more complex" to the point that you can't adjust it to a QB with a different skillset and experience level is silly. That points to poor coaching to me.

    I think RG3 would struggle in Jason Garret's scheme because Jason Garret has a terrible scheme which doesn't maximize the ability of Tony Romo.

    I think Tony Romo would thrive in Mike and Kyle Shanahan's scheme because it is a far superior offense which would also utilize his skill set much better
  16. WPBCowboysFan

    WPBCowboysFan Well-Known Member

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    :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    No, it was an absurd statement, by you, in my view.

    If you can't determine the level of complexity from one offense to another in the NFL then I can't help you. I can and I'm not a Pro Coach or player. I just think that you are not being honest on this point. If you watched the Cowboys and Romo on a regular basis, I think that it would be easy to see that Romo's offensive scheme is much more complex. Is that a good thing? Not necessarily but it is the truth.

    Romo, IMO, could thrive in Shannahan's offense because he has the right set of skills to make it work. RG3 would struggle in Garrett's offense because he does not have the experience to deal with all the variables the offense demands of the QB. All of the decisions the QB must make at the very last minute. Garrett's offense is predicated on waiting till the very last second to get the play off because you must make last second reads and then mentally understand where your 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th reads are. They are not always predetermined as they are in Shannahan's current offense. After that, it gets more complicated. Is that a good system? I'm not really a fan of it because I don't like throwing 70% of the time and I don't like having an offensive scheme that relies on everybody being on the same page every play. To many moving parts and I believe in simpler scheme executed proficiently. I believe in running the football and I believe in good hard defense and field position so no, I don't like our offense but that has nothing to do with the QBs themselves. Those are only the circumstances each plays in. The Offense Shannahan runs is influenced by his experience at Eastern Illinois. The same place Romo learned how to play QB. Shannahan actually knows Romo well. He has helped him in his development as a QB while at Eastern Illinois. He was introduced to Shannahan by Sean Payton.

    RG3 is a fine young QB and if you review the vote, you will see that I would trade for RG3 if that trade were on the table but not because I think RG3 is better, right now, then is Romo. Because he is younger by a lot, because his cap number would help us greatly and because his upside is through the roof but not because he is better. He is not a better QB right now. Romo, IMO, is the better QB right now. Unfortunately, Romo plays in a very different situation then does RG3. It is what it is.

    Some day, RG3 may be better then Romo but not today. That's not realistic IMO.
  18. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    I'd take RGIII and Shanahan over Romo and JG. No way, no how does Garrett devise, implement and coach the offense that RGIII plays in so that trade would be useless, IMO. Say what anyone wants about Shanahan, but he seems like the perfect coach for this kid.
  19. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    True with every post you make.
  20. 5Stars

    5Stars Here comes the Sun...

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    :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
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