Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by cowboyschmps3, Apr 8, 2012.
It says it was broken by Incarcerated Bob, so I doubt it's legitimate. That guy just thinks crap up and throws it out there on Twitter to see what sticks to the wall. He's hardly credible.
Pull the trigger Jerry!
If it comes from Yardbarker or Bleacher Report...doubt it. Doubt it because it is probably a load of crap.
alright my bad i didn't know but since it was something that hadn't been posted that's why i decided to share i won't go with what those sites provide next time, thanks
Mark seems very fickle headed to me. So it wont surprise me if ends up happening.
I find it hard to believe. Sanchez isn't that much of a ***** [female cat], is he? I mean, even if he was, would he openly admit it by such an action? His one Y chromosome must still be functioning on some competitive level, right?
The Jets are gonna be even more of a Big Top circus event this coming season with their Sanchez/Tebow two-headed sideshow freak of a sports column filler at QB. So glad that no such nonsensical media attraction is going on with the Dallas Cowboys these days.
Why would any QB afraid of Tebow? It's only because of the spotlight and not his performance.
Whether or not its true now isnt really the issue.
IT will be a show to watch as the Jets implode and Sanchez with his fragileness crumbles under the Tebow pressure.
Because Tebow has been the superior player over the course of their respective careers to date?
Tebow has been absolutely awful his entire tenure.
in college , yes...in NFL and thats bad...cause Sanchez sucks
Why might you never meet your nephew, Hos?
I know Tebow is very polarizing .... and the media tends to shove him down your throat. He may never be a great passing QB in the NFL, but around the goal line in short yardage he could be a pretty big weapon. I think he is that at a minimum .... so whatever he becomes above and beyond that just adds to his value.
This is the only post I'm going to make on the subject, because it's been done to death everywhere else. "Tebow sucks, he was carried by his defense and got incredibly lucky" is one of those things everyone accepts as true that is nothing of the sort.
Point 1: Tebow's passing efficiency.
Yeah, his accuracy on short throws is miserable, as is his completion percentage. However, he's been able to make up for it with his running ability.
But I digress. Here's pure passing ANY/A for Tebow, Sanchez, and some other QBs I think most folks have a decent handle on the abilities of (Sorry, I'm not taking the time to compute the entire league). Tebow's data is all 16 career games, the others are 2011 (each had 16 starts, so 16 games of data for each):
Alex Smith 6.13
Joe Flacco 5.70
Andy Dalton 5.65
Mark Sanchez 5.05
Tim Tebow 4.85
OK, that jibes with conventional wisdom. But now, let's repeat the exercise but treat Tebow's (and the other's as well, for fairness sake) runs as completed passes. After all, they are worth the same thing, right?
Alex Smith 6.29
Tim Tebow 5.77
Andy Dalton 5.54
Joe Flacco 5.37
Mark Sanchez 4.93
Oh, snap. Frankly, based on personal production alone, Tebow is a good, solid NFL starting quarterback, which makes him way better than Mark Sanchez. On top of that, Tebow has effects elsewhere that make him valuable than his personal production.
Point 2: Tebow's effect on (the rest of) the Bronco running game
It's well documented that running QBs, in addition to their own production, open things up for the HBs on their team (Quick: who was the last RB to start behind Michael Vick and fail to produce? Hint: I dunno, but if he exists it was in high school or earlier). Tebow had this effect in spades when he was in Denver. Subtracting Tebow's personal rushing stats, and splitting appropriately,
Games 1-5 (Orton starting): 111 carries for 472 yards (4.25 a pop)
Games 6-16 (Tebow starting): 313 carries 1500 yards (4.79 per carry)
For comparison, that's approximately the difference between the Lions' run game (29th) and the Saints (6th), coming from the linebackers being forced to check Tebow first, even on run plays.
To be blunt, the minute Tim Tebow took over washed-up old man McGahee suddenly turned into Adrian Peterson. That's not a coincidence, and any analysis of Tebow's effectiveness that fails to take that into account isn't going to give a remotely realistic picture of his overall ability.
Now, an analysis of any quarterback has to take into account the quality of his teammates. It's a common commentary on Tebow that "Oh, he's terrible and is just being carried by McGahee and/or the defense".
I think I've already demonstrated that Tebow was carrying McGahee, not the other way around. As for the defense:
Defensive PPG, games 1-5: 28 (would be 30th over a full season)
Defensive PPG, games 6-16: 23 (would be 20th)
Which is nice. However:
Defensive Yards/Play, games 1-5: 5.51 (would be 17th over a full season)
Defensive Yards/Play, games 6-16: 5.33 (would be 12th)
which is a lot less of an improvement than the above (and most other efficiency stats are even more ambivalent about the Broncos' supposed second half defensive improvement). The statistics suggest that a considerable portion of the scoring drop wasn't from defensive improvement but rather, to borrow a basketball term, low tempo brought on the Broncos clock-killing, low-turnover running attack.
As for other units, Denver's offensive line is good-but-not-as-good-as-it-looks; Tebow's effect on the run game I already noted, and you can understand the need to be conservative in pass rushing him, and their receivers were Jacksonville/Cleveland level awful once Lloyd left. Overall, the "Tebow is a horrific quarterback who was carried by his teammates" theory is completely invalid.
In terms of the immediate comparison, Sanchez had an equivalent line, and Santonio Holmes is better than the entire receiving corps Tebow had last year all by himself (although, to be fair, the rest of NYJ's receivers are even more awful than is generally believed), so you can't use relative quality of teammates to explain away Tebow's 17% edge in personal production last year, let alone his effect on the running backs.
There is simply no case to be made for Sanchez to start over Tebow based on their college resumes (Tebow's is better), ages (Tebow is younger), or professional production (Tebow's is better) thus far.
One final thing to note: While in general QB W-L records are terrible measures of how well a guy plays the position, that is largely because football is a team sport and there is no way to correct for the quality of teammates. Because this is the case, when we see two quarterbacks both get significant playing time in the same offense with the same players around we can get a very clear picture of who is actually the superior player.
Orton in Denver, 2010-2011: 4-14
Tebow in Denver, 2010-2011: 9-7 (incl. playoffs)
Frankly, Tebow > Orton is right up there with Warner > Leinart and Brady > Bledsoe in terms of certainty. So, with that established, let me ask you this:
If your two quarterbacks were Orton and Sanchez, who would you start?
I seriously doubt this is true.