Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Colo, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    In what respect?

    Dwayne Bowe
    Height: 6022
    Weight: 221
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.40*
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.52*
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.52*
    Vertical Jump: 33
    Broad Jump: 10'5"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.35
    3-Cone Drill: 6.81
    College Stats: 154 catches, 2403 yards, 26 TDs

    *Pro Day results

    Sidney Rice
    Height: 6034
    Weight: 200
    40 Yrd Dash: 4.51
    20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
    10 Yrd Dash: 1.47
    Vertical Jump: 39 1/2
    Broad Jump: 9'11"
    20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.34
    3-Cone Drill: 7.09
    College Stats: 142 Catches, 2233 Yards, 23 TDs

    THUMPER Papa

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    If Dwayne Jarrett is there at #22 then I take him regardless of who else is available. He is the best WR in the draft after Johnson IMO. I hope other teams underrate him and take Ginn and others ahead of him, leaving Jarrett for us.

    Romo is not a mad bomber type of passer (ala DelHomme or Favre) and could really use a steady player who will get open and make the catch. Jarrett will also make the clutch catch unlike one of our starting WRs whose name isn't Terry Glenn. He is a big target and has excellent hands and the ability to go up and get high passes.

    The last thing we need at #22 is a guy better known for his return skills than for his receiving ability: Ginn. You pick up return guys on Day-2 not in the 1st round (remember Desmond Howard?). Ginn's production is nowhere near what Jarrett has done.
  3. LowTech

    LowTech the most important member

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    I was watching a youtube link someone put on here of Ginn and as I was watching I noticed the highlight reel was 90% returns and 10% receiving. If we get a WR in Rd 1, we need that highlight reel the other way around.

    And yes, Ginn appears to be an excellent KR.
  4. CalCBFan

    CalCBFan Well-Known Member

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    LowTech, et. al.: As badly as Jerry has done in the past, there is NO WAY even he would take a KR w/ his 1st pick, unless that pick was also in the 4th or 5th rnd!

    And I had forgotten how many LSU players we've taken the past 10 years, none of whom have turned out to be much. As a matter-of-fact, Addai is the only one I can think of that has accomplished anything. Has Troy Edwards been that successfull?...
  5. Pabst

    Pabst Well-Known Member

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    I'd like Meachem over Bowe, but I wouldn't complain.

    I dunno. He has great speed, yet I don't see him get elite seperation very often. It's not like he had a weak-armed QB throwing to him either.

    He has very good hands and great body control; you could tell that many of the passes that were thrown to him were off-target. But something just makes me uneasy about him.
  6. CrazyCowboy

    CrazyCowboy Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope we do better then this lame pick.
  7. Roughneck

    Roughneck Active Member

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    Are you calling Bowe a "lame pick?"
  8. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying that Santonio Holmes was worthy of a first round pick but Devin Hester wasn't despite the fact that Devin Hester in his first year outperformed first-round pick Holmes on returns alone? We're not even taking into account what he might do as a corner down the road.

    Are you saying that Mike Williams, Mark Clayton and Roddy White were worthy of a first round pick but Devin Hester wasn't despite the fact that Devin Hester in his first year outperformed those first-round pick on returns alone?

    Of course, we're speculating that sitting a year behind TO and Glenn won't help Ginn. But since we're speculating, let me indulge.

    If Ginn produced the same impact Devin Hester did in his first year, heck yes you take him in the first round, even if he doesn't develop into a minimum average receiver until two years later.

    This idea that you can't take a special teams player in the first round - considering all the busts in the first round - is ridiculous.

    The name of the game is winning and having an impact on the game.

    If Ginn can match what Hester did (doubtful but he has that kind of talent) and if he can give the Cowboys field position close to the 50, I don't care if he only fields kicks for the first year, you take him no questions ask.

    That type of field position is invaluable.

    And I doubt Bowe, Jarrett or Meachem, for that matter, are going to have a major impact the first year even if the Cowboys draft them. They're not going to be return men. So they too will simply learn behind Glenn and TO - assuming neither gets hurt.

    So what do we have:

    Bowe, Jarrett and Meachem = learning behind TO and Glenn a year and no impact in the special teams game vs. Ginn = learning behind TO and Glenn a year, putting on pounds in the team's weight program and returning kicks.

    And add in the fact that Ginn has the greater upside and I think it's pretty clear who you take.

    Ginn has the chance to be something special based on his speed. Giving him a chance to sit and learn the game while playing special teams works to his advantage and the teams.

    Meanwhile, what is the upside for Bowe (TO), Jarrett (Keyshawn) and Meachem (Carl Pickens)?

    Unless you're missing out on a Jerry Rice, WR is the place where you can roll the dice and take a chance. And I'd rather take a chance on the guy with the greater upside.
  9. SultanOfSix

    SultanOfSix Star Power

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    Maybe it's just me, but how can an upside such as this (without the character issues) actually be considered a negative?
  10. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    Did Bowe not participate in the Combines?
    Were all these stats taken from the Combines?

    It appears you inserted the best times for Bowe from one outing and the other numbers were from other outings. If that's the case, then that's very misleading.

    I'm not a Rice homer in any way, but that stood out to me. Also, I think you might want to compensate in your comparison with the college stats since Bowe was catching passes from a guy who is suppose to be the No. 1 pick and best QB in the draft versus the guy throwing them to Rice.
  11. alancdc

    alancdc Active Member

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    No way the Panthers don't take Nelson at 14. They have 2 safeties on the team right now. An old Mike Minter who is retiring after this year, and a late round draft pick from last year that is a special teams player.

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably also worth mentioning that Bowe's numbers are compiled over 4 seasons of play. Rice's are over two seasons. Rice was ultra productive in the two seasons that he played, IMO.
  13. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say it was a negative thing. I was measuring more in terms of measureables. If Bowe turns out to be like TO maybe it will be worth it. But TO's ability has more to do with his hard work than his measureables, although that helps too.

    We tend to think players are as dedicated and passionate as the Rices, TOs, Irvins and Paytons. But that really is rare in the NFL. And I really didn't see that from Bowe. He seems more like an offensive Marcus Spears. I remember watching Spears at LSU and while everyone seem to think he was great, I was underwhelmed. He like Derrick Johnson just never stood out in big games to me even though everyone talked about how good they were.

    Bowe strikes me the same way.

    Second, I personally think receivers are overrated. Only a hand full of them really amount to being game changers over the long haul and, like running backs, they're replaceable.

    I'd rather take the chance on a guy with special talent, even though he's underdeveloped, than a guy with great measureables who may be a dime a dozen.

    But that's just me.
  14. PlayMaker88

    PlayMaker88 Member

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    Rice was as productive as Bowe in 2 years, compared to 4 for Bowe. Also had a real live quarterback throwin him the ball. I personally would take Rice over any reciever in this class other than Johnson, and even thats a toss up. Go back and compare their stats against common the same teams and get back to me.....
  15. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    I listed the best times for Bowe between the combine and his pro day. Rice didn't run at his pro day, so there were no numbers.

    You could argue that taking his best time is unfair, but that same argument can be made about Rice's numbers. At the combine, there are actually 6 different times taken. Each player run two passes, and on each pass there are two handheld timers and an electronic timer. Most sites post the best 40 time out of all of the possible times, but there can be significant variance even within a single pass. In other words, none of these times are too reliable.

    Beyond that, even if you were to simply take Bowe's Combine stats, that clearly wouldn't show that Rice was a "10 times better receiver."
  16. DallasEast

    DallasEast Cowboys 24/7/365 Staff Member

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    At this stage of his career, Favre's best weapon at wide receiver is a homerun kinda guy. He aches to throw the long ball every freaking game. May as well get someone who has the speed to get behind the defense and play "catch the duck". Ginn certainly fits the bill.
  17. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    I'm warming up to Rice.

    I remember seeing a clip comparing Houston on Jarrett and Houston on Rice.

    Jarrett couldn't get separation from Houston while Rice beat him badly.

    I'm assuming Ginn is gone by #22 and enough of the good receivers are there that San Diego trades with the Cowboys to get ahead of KC, which needs a receiver, to take either Meachem, Bowe or Jarrett.

    Then the Cowboys can pick up the Chargers second, third and fourth rounders (that's a fairly good trade for a team picking low in the draft and that's loaded already), then trade down again in the second and maybe pick up another fourth rounder (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, and 4th, 4th, 4th) and pick up Rice-WR, Tyler-DT, Hughes-CB, Weddle-FS, OL/OLB-DE with the other picks.

    I guess I can dream can't I? ;)
  18. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. I didn't take the "10 times better receiver" comment into consideration.

    Taking that into consideration, I agree with you.
  19. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Technically it was 4 years, but in reality it was 3 years of production.

    However, it's also worth mentioning that Bowe, until his senior season, had an eye condition that rendered him almost legally blind. You could also consider that Bowe played with two other reciever, one of which will be a 1st rounder next year, and the other will be a 2nd rounder this year. Rice certainly didn't have receivers of that caliber on his team taking away catches. It should also probably be mentioned that Rice was in a pass-happy system that's known to inflate WR stats.
  20. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    Bowe is actually better at getting separation than Meachem.

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