Senate rejects ANWR drilling

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Dallas, May 13, 2008.

  1. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    Senate rejects ANWR drilling

    Erika Bolstad

    Published: May 13th, 2008 03:26 PM
    Last Modified: May 13th, 2008 03:27 PM
    WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Senate rejected a Republican energy plan that promised to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil exploration, an option that was part of an overall package to increase domestic energy development.

    Instead, the Senate voted 97-1 to temporarily halt oil deposits in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve while prices at the pump continue to climb.
    Congress hopes that diverting fuel from the reserves to the open market will increase supply and ease prices at the pump.

    But that's not enough, warned Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, who has taken the place of her fellow Alaska Republican, Sen. Ted Stevens, as the leading advocate in the Senate for drilling in ANWR.

    Congress needs to focus on legislation that encourages conservation and the development of alternative energy, Murkowski said. But it could take many years for such alternatives to quench the nation's thirst for oil. Until then, there's also a need to develop domestic sources of fossil fuels, Murkowski said.

    "Increasing our production is part of a comprehensive energy policy," Murkowski said. "We cannot have an energy policy that is based on 'no.' "

    The amendment to halt strategic deposits, attached to an unrelated flood insurance bill, had near-unanimous support in the Senate. It was the only major energy-related proposal supported by both parties in their respective price relief plans unveiled this month.

    President Bush has said he does not support the proposal and has called for continuing to add to the strategic reserves. However, he will not veto it, said White House spokeswoman Jeanie Mamo.

    The president hopes that it won't distract Congress from moving in a direction that "would actually make a difference, like opening up new domestic supply in an environmentally sensitive way in ANWR" and the outer continental shelf, Mamo said.

    The House or Representatives is expected to pass a similar proposal for curtailing strategic reserves, and they're expected to do so with an equally veto-proof threshold.

    The Senate Republicans proposal included other provisions that would have encouraged domestic development, such as allowing Western states to bypass moratoriums on developing shale oil.

    Environmentalists who have fought to keep ANWR off-limits lauded the Senate vote, saying that it "made a clear statement" that drilling there "does nothing to lower gas prices."

    "It has been proven that conservation is our best solution," said Cindy Shogan, executive director of the Alaska Wilderness League. "Now we can work together to come up with real steps toward breaking our addiction to fossil fuels."

    But Stevens and Murkowski said they didn't think that the failed GOP proposal represented a referendum on drilling in ANWR. It failed 56-42, with six Republicans joining Democrats. Some Republicans had other reasons for voting against the package, both senators said.

    If anything, the 42 votes show "a viable block of votes are going to stay with us in terms of ANWR," Stevens said.

    He also said that while he supported the moratorium on oil deposits in the strategic reserve, he found the Democratic arguments "inconsistent."

    Democrats don't want to open up ANWR to increase long-term supply, Stevens said, a move he believes will lower gas prices long-term. But the Democrats will support a halt to strategic reserve deposits to increase supply temporarily and theoretically lead to lower gas prices in the short term, Stevens said.

    "They're the same people that say when we increase the supply by a million barrels a day, there could be no decrease in the price of gasoline," Stevens said. "They're siding with the extreme environmental movement and deciding that that's more important than the future of the country."

    These are the same democrats you folks want in office that will fix our ENERGY CRISIS? PLEASE!

    I ask you. How many times does the big fat elephant that is the price of gas have to crap in your cereal for you to realize that this country is having a huge ENERGY CRISIS? How much more burden do you freakin need to put on the average joe like me?

    Raise may taxes also at the same time Mr. Obama?

    Good Lord!
  2. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    I worked in the oil fields in the summers after school when it was booming in Texas. My Uncle Mike was a Tool Pusher for Parker Drilling. Mostly I had to do all kinds of grunt work, which is fine for a 14, 15, and 16 year old punk.

    One of the things that always amazed me was when the wildlife would come out to the rig to see what we were up to. The roughnecks sometimes put salt blocks out near the rigs for the deer. I guess I have never seen drilling as a giant interruption of the wilderness because of this, and I see myself as a Conservationist. Call me a tree hugger if you want to. I won't care.

    I want cleaner air and water. I confess to that. I am all about Green Building. It is a field that excites me. If I went back into construction for myself again I assure you it would be to focus on Green Building. I want this country to develop alternative fuels and energy sources. I would like to see this country grow hemp to make paper instead of using trees. You can cultivate 7 crops a year in some locales but it takes 20 years for the trees to grow back.

    I can't believe they would vote down drilling in ANWR given where we are. The food prices and everything else are just going to skyrocket as it gets more and more expensive to transport these goods.

    This doesn't make any sense to me at all. When are we going to go forward instead of backwards?
  3. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    Hos. I am all for alternative fuels as well. I think this country needs to get off its dependency on oil. Its terrible where we are right now.

    Do they expect us to pay 5$ a gallon from here on out? Come one. We need some help. We need to stop hand cuffing ourselves and allow some of these large fields in our own back yard to be produced.

    The call ANWR prestine? Well sure its prestine. There is NOTHING there. I just don't get it. I have lived in Alaska most of my life. Hell, 90% of this state is prestine. Nobody goes out there to see it. I hunt and fish there but I damn sure know that Bob and Wanda democrat from NY aren't taking any personal helipcopter rides to prestine interior Alaska. They aren't hanging out in prestine ANWR this summer.

    These people need to get real and give us some help.
  4. Hostile

    Hostile The Duke

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    I would wager that 95% (or higher) of those who oppose drilling there have never been there and have no personal investment beyond Political Party to oppose it.

    That is why I don't like Politics.
  5. Bizwah

    Bizwah Well-Known Member

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    I guess I don't understand what the big deal is about drilling in ANWR.

    I believe the environment is important. But come on.....Alaska is pretty darn stinking big. You can't tell me that drilling in a portion of Alaska will destroy caribou.

    I agree that something needs to be done about oil. We need to move away from it ASAP. But right now, there aren't many practical alternatives. Solar energy sounds good...but it still doesn't provide power efficiently....for cars. Ethanol is sounding worse and worse daily. Electric cars sound great, but a lot of the country depends on OIL for electricity....what is gained? Hydrogen really excites me....but it's going to take years to develop that technology before it's cheap enough for the average American. We also have to set up the infrastructure to siphon hydrogen.

    We need help yesterday. ANWR might take a few years to have an impact, but it help will come faster than the alternative. While we're getting help from new oil, then maybe we can have gov't funding for researching alt fuels.

    Right now....dragging our feet is only going to destroy our nation. Lincoln said it country can forcibly take over the US...if we are to be destroyed, it will be by our own doing (not an exact quote).
  6. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    This is one of the defeats this country was dealt when the dems got control of the senate.

    This is very sad.
  7. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Hunka Hunka Burning BP Staff Member

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    The longer we try to tie our future to anwar, the longer the big oil companies can keep milking us and hinder us from searching for alternative fuels/methods.

    People that want us to drill in anwar are basically enablers to big oil.
  8. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    And those that don't are basically enablers to OPEC.


    How's that 3.75 per gallon working for ya???
  9. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Hunka Hunka Burning BP Staff Member

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    OPEC AND Big oil are business partners and we are the fools that keep letting them run our lives with our dependency on oil. If we drill domestically we will STILL be at the mercy of at least one of them and if you really think they would bring the price per gallon down by over a dollar...I got some nice ocean front property to sell you here in WV and hillary sun bathes in the nude at the beach.

    Keep on supporting big oil and see how hard we really try to find alternative fuels. I guess we have been doing the mantra since the 70's and carter and yet we are STILL dependent on Oil and they have been more than influential in making sure we stay dependent on it.

    I hate the huge oil prices but I also know that as long as we keep trying to go back to oil, domestically included, we will never get away from the addiction.
  10. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    We keep depending on oil because it's still the cheapest source of energy. When it's not, we won't. But that price point is WAY above $3.50 per gallon and $120 per barrel.
  11. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    So what do you think the number one objective for the oil companies are?
  12. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Hunka Hunka Burning BP Staff Member

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    We will keep using oil until we have to break away with it and big oil is never going to make it easy for us to do so. And since big oil is also big in government it is also not going to be easy for us to do it.

    Let me ask you a question.

    If you have a multi-billion dollar business (big oil)...would you just say, hey yes let's get the consumers to go to an alternative source to run it's cars and in doing so lose our money/business?

    Now let me ask you another question.

    If many politicians are bed fellows with big oil, do you think many of them really want us switching to another alternative source to run our cars and in turn take money and business away from them as well?

    In the long run the electric car that was put out, leased out in small numbers, would be far cheaper because not only the fuel, but no oil changes, many of the moving parts would last much longer and so that would save money in parts, labor and repair as well.

    Oil is not the cheapest long term is just what we are used to and what we have grown to depend on.

    People as a whole resist change, big oil is going to resist change, many in government will resist change.

    So they would try and find a way to compromise and say...hey we will drill domestically and yet still make more money while only charging just a little less and we are all still drinking up that oil like before.

    Sometimes it takes some dramatic situations before change finally takes hold.

    It is terrible with these gas prices but if it gets us to the point where we finally get alternatives into the spotlight and get things rolling then it is better in the long run.

    Or we can keep on putting money into the oil business and just not worry about changing things over....nah if it gets the ball rolling than that is the silver lining IMO.

    Finally we are getting more cars being built with better MPG and not just hybrids. We are getting more Hybrids built as well and not just one or two ugly little cars but even SUVs.

    I have also seen some people making electric vehicles and not just little no power things. I recently seen a drag racing all electric bike that hit 173 mph in the quartermile and the price it took to run that little bit was GREATLY smaller than what it cost a gas powered drag bike to run the same amount.

    Times are finally starting to change some things and it is because people are tired of the high prices of oil and as I have said many can try and blow smoke up my but that big oil would greatly reduce the cost of gas per gallon if they drilled in anwar but I think that is a farce.
  13. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Hunka Hunka Burning BP Staff Member

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    Control the product and consumer. If we move away from oil, they lose both money and consumer.

    Right now the choices are limited and they will do what they can to make sure it stays limited.

    Also...what you fail to realize with drilling in anwar is that big oil will not greatly reduce the price per gallon like many think.

    They will use many excuses as to why it did not fall as greatly as they expected.

    Here are some excuses.

    Well we had to spend a HUGE amount of money to set up new drills, offices, pipelines, equipment, housing and so on to get the oil drilling started and stabilized.

    We we had to spend a HUGE amount of money to set up a bunch of new refineries because the few we did have were old and in terrible shape. So we fixed those up and we opened up a great deal of new ones.

    Well with all of the new growth in the anwar oil drilling we also had to hire new scientists, geologist, engineers, and a multitude of other workers to make it work.

    So...with those reasons above will see at least 5-10 years of not dropping the price much because we have to pay that all off. Then we have to pay a few CEOs a kings ranson to keep them running our companies.

    Now once those 5-10 years go by we might see a great reduction in price, but then again who knows because that is in the future.

    Meanwhile...the money we put into all of that we could have found alternative ways to get our autos to run that will be cheaper to all of us in the long run. If we can do a multitude of advances since the 70's...I am sure if the US puts it's mind to it we can come up with a very viable electric car that is affordable or other ways to make our cars run.

    We keep going back to oil oil oil and it is not the future whether it is foreign oil or domestic oil.
  14. ologan

    ologan Well-Known Member

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    Had we started the drilling process in ANWR back in the first four years,we would be that much closer to realizing the benefits of the increased production from there. We will NEVER be totally independent of foreign oil. The day we are totally independent is the day when there is no more oil. What we can do is lessen that dependence,and have that available to us if needed. Not just ANWR,but off the coasts as well. We also may want to think of cultivating a really stronger relationship with Brazil,who happens to be sitting on a hugh field off their coast.

    As it stands now,we are no further along with developing this field than we were in 2000,and they project it will be 10 years from start to realization of benefits from such a development. 10 years down the road,China and India will be getting the lions share of the oil,and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it.We will be behind the proverbial eight ball more than ever.

    Oh,by the way,suspending the oil flowing into the reserve ain't gonna amount to any tangible relief at the pump.They're just wizzin' in the wind with that one!
  15. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Hunka Hunka Burning BP Staff Member

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    Actually we CAN be dependent from least as far as cars go. It is just a matter of committing to change and going away from gas/oil.

    And it is even better to get off it now instead of later for some of the reasons you have listed.
  16. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    My point is that prices aren't really that high. At least relative to costs of other energy sources. In fact oil and gas are EXTREMELY cheap.
  17. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Wow. All that and the answer simply is Profit. That's why any business is formed.

    So why complain when someone is successful?

    What you need to know is that if we were to go to electric cars, instead of the Big Bad Oil company, it would soon be the Big Bad Electric Company.
  18. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Hunka Hunka Burning BP Staff Member

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    Because the other alternatives have not been explored or developed enough on a grand scale...and that is not by coincidence in all areas IMO.

    I will also say that when one auto manufacture made an electric car. Leased it to a small number of people and had a docking type station installed in their homes.

    They found that it WAS cheaper to run those vehicles then it was to run gas powered vehicles. Not only in per mileage rates but also do to maintenance and parts.
  19. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Hunka Hunka Burning BP Staff Member

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    Unless individuals took it a step further and started using solar and/or wind power at their homes tied into the vehicles docking ports.

    Takes the electric biz out of the equation and puts more power into the owners hands.

    So you take away the PROFITT (exactly what oil is all about and what they are willing to do to keep it) and puts it into an individuals hands.

    Imagine not having to buy another gallon of gas, not paying extra to the electric company.

    It would be possible to pay around $20 a month for both your own electricity and to keep your car running daily. You will pay more up front but it would make up for it for down the road by a large margin.

    Just imagine that...for around $20 (and that is just a guess as I have seen some people pay only $7.00 a month electric bill because they had 5-6 solar panels...I have seen one case where people had both solar panels and wind mill and the power they were making exceeded their usage so they were actually credited from the power company).

    This is an ideal situation for those in rural areas where mass transportation is practically null and void.

    And what if a small community decided they wanted to collectively invest in solar and wind power so they set a portion of collective land, gather money amongst themselves and put solar and wind power in that piece of land to be distributed among each other.

    Even if they still drew some power from electric company they would still greatly reduce their monthly bill and who knows if they keep adding panels or windmills in the future with the savings they could be totally self sufficient concerning power.

    It is something to think is not just hippy tree hugger stuff anymore.
  20. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    How long do you freakin think it took oil to get where it is? You think this stuff just came out of the ground produced ready to use for market?

    Do you even know the history of oil? It used to be thrown out like yesterdays trash 80 years ago.

    You think Exxon got where it is over night? You think BP got where it is overnight? It's called a product. Something researched and refined over and over again to get the most out of it. That type of thing doesn't just come at the snap of BrainPaints finger.

    These upstart companies that are investing in alternate fules need TIME. Something which you are either being ignorant about or blatantly ignoring just so you can beat your drum.

    As someone who has worked in the industry for the past 20 years. You my friend, haven't a CLUE about oil and what it does for this nation.

    It's not just something you pump into your car, which at the end of the day is the only reason you are crying like you are.

    BP has invested over 5 billion the past 2 years in alternative other than oil. I suppose you want to argue that they should put the entire profit they make into putting themselves out of business. You probably want to argue that also huh?

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