Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by landroverking, Sep 2, 2013.
Pure unadulterated conjecture
Well, that's true lol...but the media coverage of him HAS been overboard. Many of us Skins fans are even irritated with it, just in a slightly different way. We see non-stories being blown waaaaaaay out of proportion because sportswriters know that RG3=clicks, tons of them...so if there's no real story, they'll spin like crazy to make it seem as if there is one.
So is "This team would be 3-13 if not for Romo", but I read that all the time on this site and in the media.
The coverage, especially nationally, over the Griffin/Shanahan/Andrews stuff is certainly over the top. But that's on the media, they take a word or two (ie "concerns") and blow it into a whole 3-4 day story. From nearly the gitgo, everyone was talking about trying to get Griffin ready for game 1. The first game is 8 months to the day of an ACL/LCL surgery. Right in the middle of a professional athlete rehab time table (7-9 months). Yes, Griffin is going to come out wanting to play, yes Dr. Andrews is going to be cautious about clearing a player, and yes, after cleared Shanahan is going to make it clear he has final authority over the roster.
What you don't see as much of from the media, because it doesn't fit the supposed story, is when Cousins went down, and Shanny teased Griffin about going in, and then they and the whole sideline were laughing up a storm. This is a player, coach and team that are comfortable with themselves.
But, go ahead and hate, because it's a definite that Griffin is going to be one of those players that you either love, or hate, there won't be any football fans without an opinion or interest. And that is why the media will continue to play up any storyline that is connected to Griffin.
How did they do the previous seasons without RG3? The Skins went 5-11 the year before he arrived and they hadn't made the playoffs since 07. They hadn't won the division since 1999. It's pure unadulterated conjecture on your part to think they could have done just as well with a QB who was drafted in the 4th round and who only completed 3 passes in the playoffs finishing with a passer rating of 40.0.
I pointed out the one full game RG3 missed Morris put up only 87 yards averaging 3.2 a carry which was his second lowest rushing average of the season and this was vs a Cleveland team that finished 5-11 and was 19th against the run. If you're going to debate a topic at least bring something to the table that can't be shot full of holes.
Troll master. You're the best.
You're becoming the best at name calling. If you can't have a civil discussion stop responding to my posts or put me on ignore.
If you are going to argue that Cousins could not have helped the skins to the same record in the REGULAR season, why the **** do you continue to only talk about his playoff stats? Oh that's right, because you and your "objective" self can't figure out a way to make that argument work talking about someone's 68.8% completion rate with a passer rating of 101.6. To claim RG3 was the sole difference between 5-11 and 10-6 is, like you, moronic. How many games did the great RG3 win without Garcon in the game? I'll answer that for you - ONE. How many did they lose? FIVE. When we boil it down to the only stat that matters to you, wins and losses, Washington won 90% of the games Garcon played in. They only won 16% without him. Seems to me that statistically, the difference in winning for Washington last season, was not RG3. So go ahead, shoot holes in 9-1 with Garcon and 1-5 without. Show me how that those are not accurate factual stats.
It's amusing how some FA
You're making an assessment of Cousins based off ONE game vs a Cleveland team that finished 5-11. One performance by Cousins vs a crap team has convinced you the Skins could have gone 10-6 and won the NFC East without RG3. LOL If Cousins was anything special he wouldn't have lasted until the 4th round. He has potential but he's certainly no RG3. In limited action last season Cousins had 3 int's compared to only 5 for RG3. AZ made a determination about Kevin Kolb based off 2 productive games and look how that turned out for them. Seattle brought in Matt Flynn to be their QB based off ONE great game where he passed for 480 yards and 6 TD's and he couldn't even win the starting job and lasted only one season in Seattle. Flynn just got beat out again by another young QB in Oakland. Cousins doesn't provide near the problems that RG3 does. The longest run the Skins had from scrimmage last season was 76 yards by RG3. Cousins doesn't provide the duel threat which is very difficult to defend. Defenses can stack the box against Morris if they don't have to worry about the read option from a duel threat QB who can throw a quick pass or take off and run. Morris isn't a speedster the longest run he had last season was 39 yards. RG3 is a 70 yard play waiting to happen via the ground and the air. One mistake by a defender and you get burned for a big play.
RG3 accounted for over 4000 yards and 27 TD's last season. You take him off the field replacing him with Cousins and Alfred Morris wouldn't be as effective as we saw vs the Browns a team that finished 19th against the run. Morris had 27 carries in that game and only averaged 3.2 a carry. You don't have to worry about a 70 yard play from Morris you can stack the box against him if you didn't have to worry about RG3. A defense has to be very disciplined vs the read option or they'll get burned.. RG3 put up a rookie record 815 rushing yards including 7 rushing TD's. The Cowboys didn't have an RB who put up that kind of production last season. As for Garcon he's just another receiver he produced only 44 catches for 644 yards. He's never had a 1000 yard season even with Peyton Manning as his QB. The most productive season he had with Manning was 67 catches for 784 yards that tells me everything I need to know about Garcon. In 2011 with Rex Grossman at QB Gaffney produced 68 catches for 947 yards and the legendary Fred Davis put up 59 catches for 796 yards.
The thing that irks me about the Griffin coverage is just how much attention is paid to everything he says. Everything. Granted he is charismatic and honest--makes the journalist job much easier. Then, hacks like Jason Whitlock and Mike Wise take half truths and blow them out of proportion, blowhards like Jim Rome decry him for "not being able to stop talking about his knee." But neglects to mention that he just answering questions posed by...hacks like Mike Wise and Jason Whitlock.
I am not saying Griffin isn't at fault--he has to realize that the media are vultures. He cannot trust the media and sometimes he's entirely too honest on twitter (thus fueling the hacks and blowhards).
If you didn't read the Deadspin article about ESPN creating it's own story about the glorification of Colin Kaepernick--check it out (There is some language in the article--I am not sure what the profanity rules are--if this is in violation then I apologize):
This happens with many of the stories when there isn't anything to actually report.
Just to make a comment, in 2011, the Redskins started off 3-2. The problem happened when they benched Grossman for one bad game, giving an undue controversy that should have never happened. He was actually playing well. Jeff Beck took over and he couldn't throw the ball ten years down the field. They lost 4 straight games with Beck. That year, living in DC, I know how fickle the fans were and how much they called for his head and how much they regretted it afterwards. By the time Grossman started again, they were 3-6 and most had already given up on the season. Even when he started that game, they scored 24 points, had them up 17-10 going into the 4th. LaVar Arrington use to go off on Shanny on the benching all season long, saying he killed their season because of it. They were much better wth RG in the line-up.
In fact, I think Shanny made comments that time that people were playing for their jobs next season and he started play them accordingly.
I wouldn't really call them a 5-11 team in actuality. They could have at least 2 wins during that stretch Beck started, one against the Bills who were just awful, the other against Miami. And that would have most definitely altered the way they played the rest of the season, meaning another win was more than likely.
He wasn't the primary receiver with the Colts. Additionally, Rex Grossman was not bad with the Redskins in 2011. He threw the ball a lot more than RG3, meaning the number of receptions is simply accounted for by that. Additionally, RG didn't even play the whole year but was benched for 4 games without justification.
Garcon not being the primary receiver speaks to the fact that he isn't anything special. He was well down the list of top free agent WR's that were available at the end of last season. The Skins paid him a lot of money which they typically do with free agents. rarely if ever do they get the bang for the buck they're looking for. You mean Grossman got benched for 4 games without justification?
Grossman threw 4 ints against the Eagles--I would say that is a pretty good reason to bench him. Following the Panthers game, Grossman was hospitalized with pneumonia. I don't think he was available for 2 weeks. And these are his numbers from that year: 57.9% comp. 3151 yards, 16 TDs 20 INTs in 13 games. Let me reiteriate with some emphasis--he through 20 INTs in 13 games. That's not "good." Beck was worse, but lets be honest, Grossman wasn't good either.
And Grossman DID start against Miami--and threw 2 picks and no TDs.
Lavar Arrington rips Shanahan for everything. It's his schtick. And he's an idiot--he didn't even know our record last year--saying the team wasn't that good.
Finally, Shanahan made the comment this past year about people playing for their jobs--and it was the catalyst behind the 7 game winning streak.
You might want to do some research before posting next time.
I've never in my life seen someone write so much to say so little.
I never said Cousins would have gone 10-6. I said it was pure unadulterated conjecture to stake the claim 10-6 was all RG3 which is what you were doing. Though it is funny, YOU used one games stats (the playoff game) to conclude Cousins could not have done as well.
If Tom Brady was anything special he wouldn't have lasted until the 6th round (pick 199). Oh wait... oops. .
Why are you talking about receiving stats. It's all about wins and losses. I can post Romo stats, you're just going to counter with your usual "win or go home games" BS. Go back and reread what I wrote. Again I ask... where was I wrong? PLEASE, tell me that the facts I provided do not show that Washington was a much better team when Garcon was on the field.
Dude you need to change your avatar I'm confusing you with Irvin88_4life who has the same silly avatar. They assign that avatar to everyone who doesn't have one so you look like 20+ other posters on this board. Fans are recognized here mostly by their avatar so go find something unique to set yourself apart. As for Tom Brady he's won 3 SB's and has already established himself as a future first ballot Hall of Famer. Cousins has a long way to go to be Tom Brady don't make me laugh.
You claimed Cousins wasn't special for a 4th rounder. Making the point draft status is not a barometer for success. Wilson was a 3rd rounder. IMO, he had a better season than either Luck or RG3.
I said if Cousins was anything special he wouldn't have been drafted in the 4th round. He like every college QB was evaluated off his college tape and his pre draft workouts. If Washington felt they could be successful with Cousins they would have never given up the farm to move up to #2 overall to select RG3. I'm not saying Cousins won't amount to anything or won't end up being special he has shown potential and given the opportunity he may develop into a very good starting QB but you need to see consistency over a number of games not just one performance. Had AZ had an opportunity to see Kolb play in 7-8 regular season games they might not have thrown a #2 pick and a good CB away to acquire him. Seattle got enamored with Matt Flynn due to one great performance and had they not drafted Wilson they would have been stuck. Wilson was a 3rd round pick but after an entire 16 game season and a playoff win he proved he was better than his draft status. The hardest position to evaluate is QB which has produced the biggest disappointments and the biggest surprises.
Drafting isn't an exact science and all the prodding and poking scouts do teams still make mistakes. You just don't know if a good college QB can make a successful transition to the pro game. Kaepernick could end up better than all these young QB's and he was a second round pick. He currently has the best team around him of the bunch but in my opinion Andrew Luck is the best young QB I've seen. He's made some incredible throws in the face of extreme pressure and he's mobile. He can hang in the pocket until the very last second like Troy Aikman and he can get outside the pocket and make plays. He led a 2-14 Colts team to an 11-5 record and a playoff birth. I predict in the next 2-3 years he'll top the list and be the best QB in the game. Anyway take my advice and change your avatar so you don't get confused with others who've been assigned same one.
In a way, you are making my point though. We don't really know if Cousins would have been able to help guide Washington to the same record (or better). He was not afforded that opportunity. And barring serious injury to RG3, we probably won't know until he moves on to another team. Then again, if he moves on to a team devoid of talent around him we may never know.
And I will agree with you, I think Luck, when all is said and done, will be considered the best QB drafted from the 2012 class. Ok, that's not word for word what you said but I am assuming that is what you would think.
There are at least two of you guys in this thread who love to the lies and spin the facts. You're one of them.