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Snyder Says Redskins name will never change

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by sbark, May 11, 2013.

  1. RFKFedEx

    RFKFedEx New Member

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    No facts. Can you provide some facts, or just theories like everyone else?

    I find nearly all of the theories credible, but none of those theories are going to change the public's increasingly negative perception in 2013. The public knows more about the plight of Native American people today than we did in 1933, and society isn't going to drift in the opposit direction any time soon. The team name, imagery, and Native themes all fall under the same umbrella.

    Lawyering the details of body paint vs bloodied scalps is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Good luck with that PR campaign.

    I still love the name and imagery, but I also understand why its time to evolve as a sports fan.
  2. NIBGoldenchild

    NIBGoldenchild Active Member

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    :laugh2: Read the whole thread and look at the links I provided as well as the video interview of a Native American Chief.

    I will say again, perceptions and theories are not truth. They are not facts. I am not going to believe that my opinion is more "credible" than someone else's. But I will honor facts over opinions. I am siding with the facts. Changing a professional football team's name, which most Native Americans are proud of, is doing nothing to improve things for Native Americans. If anything, it's doing the opposite since the majority of them are proud of the name.



    I have no idea what you're even talking about here. That argument is dead because one is a truth and the other is a lie. I don't need to be "lawyering" anything. :rolleyes:

    I so hate the word "evolve" when it comes to subjective opinions. I've heard it far too often recently when people are under the misguided notion that their opinion is somehow better than someone else's because it's newer. Here's a thought: new ideas can be just as bad or worse than old ideas. Some traditions don't need to be redefined or broken all in the name of "evolution" or "progress".

    I swear people just try to BS their way into making their opinions valid. Why should this one Native American woman and her half a dozen friends speak for every Native American nation? It would be less ridiculous if they agreed with her, but they don't. She hasn't evolved, she's just ignorant.
  3. Califan007

    Califan007 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't change that I don't care, but it DOES explain why I don't. Putting my comments in context, strangely enough, is important to me lol...


    I'm pretty sure those aren't the only two options lol..."Either say you're sorry or say she's being stupid."

    I don't have to do either. I could also just let her be upset with the belief that eventually the truth will solve everything. She could actually have an incredibly valid reason for feeling like she does, but doesn't realize she's not voicing it (I have found women tend to do that, actually lol...they think they're telling you something when they really aren't). It could be that she misunderstood or perceived my words/actions completely wrong and is letting her emotions dictate reality.

    I can't control what other people think or feel. So as long as I know I didn't do anything wrong there's no need to atone for anything and there's no need to sweep "her" and her feelings under the rug as irrelevant or "dumb". Just keep on going about my day/week/life and let her deal with what's really bothering her.

    Now...if she takes me to COURT over these unexplained and confusing things bothering her, that's a whole different story lol...



    I've no problem with complaining. I do have problems with spreading false information as fact and seeing those "facts" be treated like carved-in-stone truths. I also have a huge problem when seeing someone trying to point out the inaccuracies being immediately dismissed as "blind follower" or "racist" or "unenlightened" or any other terms. I equally have a problem with people who won't let facts sway them in their beliefs one way or another. The whole "I don't care about facts, all I know is..." mentality is incredibly frustrating to see people take on any issue.
  4. Califan007

    Califan007 Well-Known Member

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    This comment from yet another article kind of sums up the aspects of this whole debate that gets me frustrated:

    See, it's not just about being factually correct...it's also about the entire mindset that is behind this movement against the Redskins. Since Harjo has been one of the main people leading this charge, it's rather enlightening to see her express herself in the ways she has. Again, ask yourself "Why the Redskins?"...it will (or should) tell you a ****load as to what this is really about. Because it ain't about "redskin" being an unforgivable offensive racial slur.
  5. muck4doo

    muck4doo Well-Known Member

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    If it makes you feel any better Skins fans, I think you should be able to keep your name no matter how racist it or your history is. I hate Mara and the Gnats more right now.
  6. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    Then there's this too: http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports...cle_26b0f8d8-eb22-52f0-87df-c05e24bbfc0e.html

  7. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Active Member

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    from the article:

    Wow, what an epic failure of logic on the writer's part. At least I am glad the lady responding had more sense than him.
  8. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Change the race and there would be outrage.

    Skin fans can try to make excuses all they want ..... buts its a fact that if you changed the race it would be a different story.
  9. Sonny#9

    Sonny#9 Well-Known Member

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    I am going to respond to you just once, simply b/c this one-size-fits-all view of racism is bunk. Example:

    The United Negro College Fund. Make it for poor white kids. Have fun with Al Sharpton.
  10. Califan007

    Califan007 Well-Known Member

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    Incredibly flawed, simplistic logic.

    For example:

    The NAACP - National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

    The NAAWP - National Association for the Advancement of White People.

    People with working brain cells will realize that simply "changing the race" doesn't tell you squat about either example. Context means everything. Your response considered absolutely none.
  11. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Both of you just proved my point ...... grats
  12. SkinsFan82

    SkinsFan82 Member

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    I think you misunderstood their point.

    Your logic is that if the name was changed to the Washington N-Words that there wouldn't be any discussion to be had, it would be straight up wrong and nothing left to be said.

    The problem is that Redskins and 'N word' aren't equivalent terms and it seems that a very large portion of the Native American population don't feel they are either.

    Obviously there are Native Americans that feel it's a slur and even the Chiefs that have spoken on behalf of their people (representing hundreds or even thousands of people) said that while most have no issue or even take pride in the team name that some people view it as a slur and that is their right to do so.

    The point of the other posters is you can't just swap in any racial slur because to a lot of Native Americans it's not a slur.

    To me the question in all this is what is the pain of those who view it as a slur in comparison to those who view it as a source of pride and a tribute to warrior heritage of their ancestors? I know a lot of non-Native Americans don't want to acknowledge this but it's not a cut-and-dry situation like they would like to believe.

    Edit : Just to be clear, you can't use the term 'Blackskins' as an equivalent either, because the origin of the term 'Redskins' isn't a reference to natural skin tone but of face paint.
  13. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Bull ...... thats what people say to deflect the accusation of racism ..... but there is as much evidence that it was about skin than it was not.
  14. muck4doo

    muck4doo Well-Known Member

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    Leave the Redskins and their racist team be. They have earned their racist heritage, so leave it alone. You just don't get heritage like that out of straw.
  15. slaga

    slaga Member

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    Well let's see. Vikings, Celtics, Irish, Aztecs, Eskimos, Indians, Canucks, Apaches, Redmen, etc. There are a whole slew of team names based on race / ethnicity that are not being sued.

    Nope. I think you are wrong.
  16. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    People want attention this is a good way to get it.
  17. Califan007

    Califan007 Well-Known Member

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    Actually I don't think you understood your own point lol...

    Which was, if you change the race, you'll see just how offensive the original was/is. Change "Redskins" to "Blackskins", and you'll understand why "Redskins" should be seen as racist.

    We both debunked that crappy logic with our examples.
  18. RoyTheHammer

    RoyTheHammer Well-Known Member

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    "Warrior" is not a term that has any ties to one certain culture or race of people. The fact that she said she'd still be offended by that name shows me where her true intentions are.

    As for what is socially acceptable nowadays, i think we have much, MUCH bigger issues to tackle rather than a couple sports team names that are steeped in tradition.
  19. BraveHeartFan

    BraveHeartFan We got a hat. I want a ring.

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    Agreed.
  20. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    the slippery slope argument also works the other way.

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