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So jealous of Cleveland's offensive line

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by gimmesix, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    I find it kind of comical that people keep pointing out how great the olines Cleveland and 49ers have and yet the Browns have given up more pressures and the 49ers more sacks and hurries. Both these teams have been relatively healthy along the offensive lines unlike the Cowboys. Of course people will point to the great Romo's elusiveness masking what is otherwise a sieve of an oline, but that fortress littered with first rd picks in San Francisco was torched for five sacks by the Rams the week prior. Kapernick was the QB for most of that game and I think it's fair to say he has at least some of Romo's athleticism.
    Sorry, but most teams would be in the same position if they were missing they're starting left tackle, center and guard as the Cowboys were last week and we have yet to see this line together for any amout of time to make any kind of conclusion on the effectiveness of the group.
  2. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    To point out one or two games and say with any certainty that an OL is good, bad or indifferent is wrong.

    Even the Boy’s OL from the early 90’s had their moments when they were bad (Philly getting 11 sacks in Texas stadium in 91 springs to mind).

    In addition I see you neglect to mention the Brown’s and 49’ers ability to run the ball effectively. How long has it been since Dallas could do that?

    Finally to say Kapernick has some of Romo’s athleticism doesn’t mean his combination of experience and elusiveness is anywhere near as effective.

    I’ll grant you the injuries haven’t helped but we’ve no depth and some of our starters would only be backups on any team with a decent OL.
  3. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    Guess you missed the stats outlining where the Cowboys are in relation to the vaunted Niners Oline and Cleveland's 2-8 oline...those are over the course of the ENTIRE year.

    How many times does Romo (who admits he does this) hold on to the ball the extra second or two in order to make a play??? He is elusive I grant you, but there are times he doesn't do his oline any favors.

    I did neglect to mention the running game, because we are all missing one large variable from the equation. Demarco Murray has misssed half the season. Did the Vikings run the ball as effectively without Adrian Peterson???? No. Did they suddenly become a better oline this year or could it have ANYTHING to do with AP's return???? The Browns average 3.7 yds per rush and 92.5 yds per game WITH Trant Richardson on the roster. It's not like they are gashing people.

    We all can agree, the Cowboys need to replace Free sooner rather than later, but this incessant call for replacing 4/5 of the oline is ridiculous. We just have not had a large enough sample size to conclude anything with the oline.
  4. MartinRamone

    MartinRamone Well-Known Member

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    They are a QB and DB(other than Haden) from being good. They are playing a ton of rookies and have competed with most teams they played against even with Weeden as starter.
  5. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Over 5 years, you get 10 1st and 2nd round picks. There are 22 starting positions. You are pretty fortunate if you have 7 good players from drafts 6 years ago or longer.

    You are going to be short somewhere and you must be good at picking up 3-5th round picks and getting good, cheap free agents.

    The biggest problem and misjudgment has been the play of Free.
  6. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Quite frankly with or without Demarco Murray this team hasn't run well this year so while I'm sure there would be improvement with him in the line-up I don't for one minute think you would call us good.

    As for waiting on a decent sample size to judge this OL think about this.

    Wouldn’t you think a bad team like Carolina would need all the good young talent it could get its hands on so why would they let Bernadeau go?

    Again Cincinnati looks capable of making a playoff push so again would continuity on their OL be important but Livings was let go.

    Dockery’s best days (however good they were) are long gone.

    Costa, all of a sudden he’s the OL savoir?

    And Free’s performance is up and down like the preverbal whore’s drawers.

    And you say all we need to replace is Free?
  7. fanfromvirginia

    fanfromvirginia Inconceivable!

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    There are many who are calling for four new OL. I agree that that is a bit much but certainly think the problem is more than just Free. Once again (see my sig), the truth is likely somewhere in between the CZ extremes. I'd like to see three offseason additions, with at least two replacements. You need at least a new RT but LT would be safer, which would allow for Tyron to slide back over. We need another guard. Let the third acquisition, Costa, Cook, Killer, Livings and Bernie fight it out for C and the other guard position.
  8. Kangaroo

    Kangaroo Active Member

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    Arkin as well next year will be his 3rd he has to be ready to be in the mix or gone by the time training camp is over. Cook could be a backup swing tackle as well since he has played RT before.
  9. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Was going to ignore this, but I'm bored, your constant whining about the team is always a joy to read.

    I took up for the OL, shoot me. Rather do that than bring the constant negative posts that alot, including yourself, always bring to the board. I'm not perfect, but I refuse to come on here to just dog the team post after post. I will leave that to you.
  10. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    Murray has rushed for 4.4 yds per carry...that's hardly bad and without the starting center for much of those carries.

    Who cares why the Bengals/Panthers let go of Livings/Bern? Saints let Carl Nicks walk....what is that mean? Wasn't Kosier set free by the Lions who had an atrocious line at the time?
    Livings has graded out well (PFF/Broaddus) regardless of what some posters believe. Bern has played much better as the season has gone on, but I have no problem seeing another guard drafted for competition sake. You cannot possibly give up on a 22 year-old tackle with All-Pro ability this early. Costa has about five games to prove he is worth keeping as a starter and it's my belief he will. Leaves us with Doug Free at RT, who I think is unmotivated and disinterested as the single most important position needing replacement this offseason.
    You have Nagy coming back from injury, Killa, Arkin and Leary as competition. Draft or sign a OT and let Free walk. I think you'll see major improvements, barring injury of course. I really think this oline thing is overblown because a lot of posters still have there panties in a bunch over not drafting the All-World Decastro last offseason. No team can sustain this many injuries to a unit that is ruled by continuity and trust between players, especially one who had many changes to it last offseason.
  11. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    sure Bernie was improving. Slowly from putrid to bad
    Though he might be like Gurode and a much better Center then guard. We shall see; but he sucked at guard
    Livings has been OK; but that is all
    Free sucks basketballs through garden hoses
    Smith is having a tougher time transitioning then I thought he would be he is gettting better.
    By the way Nagy is gone, didn't you know?
    Arkin was much better this year then last year; one more year to go.
    Frankly the rest of them outside of Parnell are worthless
  12. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    If Nagy comes back from injury it will be with the Detroit Lions, Arkin who despite the injuries they refuse to play and Leary who they supposedly had a 3rd grade on, could only make the practice squad oh! and by the way has a degenerative knee condition.

    Yep the cavalry is coming to save us.

    And continuity and trust is developed over years of playing and growing together and rarely by planting free agents into the mix.

    By the way the Saints let Carl Nicks walk because they couldn’t afford him and Drew Brees, something that can’t be said for either Livings or Bernadeau.
  13. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    Forgot about Nagy-my bad.

    Doesn't matter why they let Nicks walk, but I suspect if they thought that highly of him and the position he played, it would be Colston departing and not him.

    Either way, I will wait to see this oline together for at least three more games before passing my inconsequential judgement on this unit. If they do not gel, we will concede that in fact the Cowboys need to follow the Browns path to perennial success by drafting lineman and rb's in the first rd year after year.
  14. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    :laugh2:

    Well one thing the Browns, with all their high picks, have drafted consistently is on their lines (and RBs too). From Brown, Warren, Faine, Wimbley, Thomas, Mack, Taylor, and such, they have really made it a focal point for their franchise.

    Too bad it has done nothing for them at all but cause them to never have had a superbowl ring in the superbowl era. If you want an emphasis on line play, the Browns shouldn't be the team to point to as an example.
  15. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    you are simply wrong. very, very wrong.

    this ol has larry allen, flozell adams and gurode for plus OL careers.
    they had a couple quality years from others in that group like columbo and bigg davis.

    fans are just inherently not very smart and like to make things up to match their story as opposed to the reality.

    The Cowboys ranked top 10 in OL (sacks allowed and yard per carry) for many of those 15 seasons.

    In 2009 the Dallas Cowboys had the most experienced offensive line in football. That group was outstanding in run blocking but was rapidly aging.
    We dropped from 5.0 ypc to 4.1 ypc in 2010. Then we replaced all the aging vets and once and were pretty bad last year. By pretty bad ... still around 20th best.

    Our moronic fans have been lead to believe this is the worst OL ever assembled and has been for a decade. Neither of those things are remotely true.

    Drew Bledsoe was 33 when he arrived and yet this team still was over .500 for the games he started. The team was 15th in points scored and 12th in passing yardage in his one full season as starter.

    Dallas had the highest paid OL in the league for much of the 2000s.
  16. jterrell

    jterrell Penguinite

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    demarco murray has averaged 68 ypg in his career.
    trent richardson 67 ypg.


    would be nice if you actually looked at stats before posting stuff that wasnt true.

    if you need i can provide useful links.
  17. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    I watched Denver's line open up lanes for three different running backs. McGahee injured his knee and had 7 carries. Denver still hung 133 rushing yards on San Diego and averaged 5.3 YPC. I would love to see Felix Jones run behind that line next year, and he just might get his chance. Denver has one of the best run blocking lines in the NFL. Peyton Manning is a coach on the field, too. He gets his team in the right play and run fit. Manning is a great leader, a true field general.

    Dan Dierdorf said this about Dallas' offensive line:

    "I know that DeMarco Murray is missing his 5th game but the reality is this offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys is hardly a juggernaut and it is not a really good run blocking group and especially...just Bernadeau moving over to center..there are..what do you expect... They've got 1 real (you know) above average player to me and that is their left tackle (Smith)".

    I think Dan was stating that rather "nicely".

    I'm still trying to figure out how the Cowboys lost to Baltimore when Jones and Murray combined for 185 rushing yards (32 rushes) and 1 TD. It should be noted that Phil Costa was outstanding in that game, and he was injured against the Panthers. Costa shouldn't stop the Cowboys from looking at centers in the draft, but they clearly have missed his run blocking this year. They have really missed Martellus Bennett's edge run blocking, too.

    I think Tyron Smith (21 years old) has played good this year, and he is Dallas' best/most valuable player, imo. If I could pick one player off the Cowboys, I'm taking Smith. Period.

    After Tyron, all those guys in the offensive line could be re-placed. However, good luck with that.
  18. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Maybe while you’re providing that information, you'd like to add a comparison between the Dallas WRs, TE and QB compared to their Brown's counterparts.

    I’ll think you’ll find Trent Richardson is pretty much the Brown’s offense.

    BTW also tell me just how good Dallas is on getting a yard on the ground on 3rd and one or rushing touchdowns in the Red Zone while you’re at it?
  19. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Wow Drew Bledsoe was over .500 for the games he started.
    Would that be .501?

    The definition of mediocre if ever I saw it and a reflection of this franchise over the last 18 years.

    That 2009 group was outstanding in run blocking !!!!

    Quoting ypc doesn’t tell me just how these yards were gained.

    Those boys couldn’t convert 3rd and 1 for love nor money and how many rushing touchdowns did we get?

    All your quoted stats just point to a mediocre team and if that’s what you’re happy with the good luck to you.
  20. IrishAnto

    IrishAnto Well-Known Member

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    Too bad Dallas's emphasis on WRs and DBs has done little for them over the last 18 years. :rolleyes:

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