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So Romo called the play to o-tree on 3rd and 1?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by MaineBoy, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. tecolote

    tecolote Well-Known Member

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    So you are telling me that our best shot to score was a 20 yard fade to Otree? And on 3rd and 1. That doesn't make sense. And I'm sorry, but a good coach thinks about not leaving time for the opposing team.

    Think about it, the Giants D was dead tired and Dallas was moving the ball at will, if I was a Giant fan, I would like a quick score. Of course nobody thought they would not convert a 2nd and 1. Garrett made sure of that.

    He is just terrible.
  2. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Playing Goal Line defense when you are in the lead and trying to prevent a team from gaining 1 yard, ball on your own 20 yard line, knowing that if you give up a TD, you lose the lead with a minute to go in the game are two completely different things. The Giants would not have sold out on the run under any circumstances and a QB sneak, something we don't even use anymore it seems, would have easily picked up a 1st IMO.

    The play calling in that situation was terrible. You can say that had OTree caught the ball, they would all be heroes. Well, maybe that's true, maybe it's not. I do know this. Those are the kinds of play calls that cost coaches jobs. It's a low percentage play. I guess we'll see how the season plays out.
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    The issue wasn't the play calling, it's how the offense countered the defense's adjustments, and any HC's options are limited in that regard.

    Did you notice what happened in that situation on the two series at the goal line on the other end of the field? I can't see how any fan watching that game *wasn't* thinking 'high-percentage pass' at that point in the game. I know I was. The kill-shot surprised me, but that's the point of a kill-shot. I think it's pretty disingenuous of fans who typically complain like crazy that the offense is too predictable and too conservative to then turn immediately and complain instead when the team goes for a big play at crunch time.

    Again, the QB checked to the play when he saw the defensive alignment. And the defense had played great all game. There's nothing wrong with trusting them to do their job if you need them to do their job.

    The HC is *not* terrible. We got beat by the better team because we turned the ball over. I know it's a lot easier to have someone specific to blame, but the problems on this team affect more than one player, and more than one person. It's the HC's responsibility to fix them, and he'll lose his job if he doesn't, but it won't be because of calling passing plays in short yardage in a game where it's already well-established that we couldn't run for a single yard when we needed one on multiple occasions.
  4. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    I hate JG more than anyone, but I have absolutely no qualms with the play design or play call. My only beefs are:

    1. They threw 3 times in a row that series.
    2. The play design was for Kevin Ogletree, who can't seem to get open, unless Romo is staying alive and their is some break down in coverage. Even then, he sucks. It's telling when you got Miles Austin and Dez Bryant on one side that KO can't even get open on single coverage. I mean, really, call it for another receiver with some speed.

    The other problem is when Dallas finally took the lead and wasted a series away with 3 and outs, with the play calling absolutely going in a different direction than what was working to get them to 24 points in the first place. They wasted a whole series when they could have laid a pretty strong demoralizer.
  5. rangers71

    rangers71 Member

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    So now we play the game 7 on 11 according to you? You say don't throw to an inconsistent receiver? Well that takes Dez who doesn't know the plays, Witten who leads the league in drops, Tree who can't run proper routes, and Felix who flat out sucks out of the play. Damn now wonder we can't win a game with that on offense every play. Also according to your logic what would you have done if the defender fell down and tree was wide open in the end zone? Well we can't throw to him because he is inconsistent and Romo can't throw he fade(despite the fact the ball hit Tree's hand).
  6. tecolote

    tecolote Well-Known Member

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    He's been pretty bad to be honest, the team is a disorganized, penalty prone mess right now. And he has been awful at game managment. Maybe he learns, but I seriously doubt it more and more as each week goes by.

    I loved the hire, I even named my fantasy team Red *****, and that, plus my 1W-1T-6L record, makes me the laughing stock of my league.
  7. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    The point is, he sholdn't have been on the field and if he was, he should have served as a decoy like the rest of them. The guy can't beat anybody on a streaking pattern downfield it seems. It's already halfway in the season and it's becoming abundantly clear KO shouldn't be the one in such situations to make the key play, especially at that crucial time in the game.
  8. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    He didn't stare down his first read at all. He brought the safety over to the middle, because he looked to the middle. As I said multiple times, the safety had an option to double KO or the WR to KO's left and because of Romo first looking towards the middle, the safety went right into the middle.

    The only thing Romo can possibly be blamed for is:

    Checking out of a run play

    He can't be blamed for the pass play design, he can't be blamed for not drawing the safety towards the middle, because the safety went to the middle, he can't be blamed for ball placement, because KO got a good hand on it...

    And I have no qualms with Romo checking out into a run play after looking at the images, because it is clear the safety on the right side steps towards the line. That also probably indicated to Romo to take a shot for KO, because the safety was more in line to help with the interior WR. This safety doesn't have to worry as much as the safety on the left, who has both Dez and Mile to worry about.
  9. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I knew that all along, but:

    1. I didn't quite have a problem with Romo going to O-tree if he felt it was there.

    2. I could not actually prove it was a Romo decision, although that's how QB'ing and coaching in the NFL tends to work.

    I didn't like how Romo played it on 4th down. He was indecisive and got caught, then tried to run backwards, only decreasing his odds of throwing a pass for a first down.






    YR
  10. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    A HC's options are limited with 3 attempts to pick up 1 yard? Really.

    Probably the first time I've heard a pass refereed to as "high-percentage", but okay, let's agree to disagree on what the correct approach is in a 2nd and 1 situation when you don't even have the lead yet and a field goal isn't an option.

    As a side note, you are referring to this situation as a goal line situation and it wasn't.
  11. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I don't agree. Things are bad, but it's mostly because of a variety of players making key mistakes. As a whole, though, the team's been pretty competitive recently. BAL on the road and NYFG at home are good teams. You're not going to blow those guys out, so it's going to come down to a couple of plays. If your star WR can't be where he's supposed to be, or your first-round backup RB runs into his own man and drops the ball, you're going to lose games like those. Now, JG is 100% responsible for fixing those problems, but not all of these things can be addressed with a simple in-game adjustment. Some of them are significant roster issues that are going to take some time.

    As for the penalties, I hate them, too. They don't correlate to wins, though, and I do understand how the OL/C problems contributed to a lot of the offensive confusion early.

    None of these are excuses. As I've said in multiple threads, the turnovers are causing us to lose games, and they have to stop. And it has to be the HC who figures out how to do that. I just think the trends when it comes to head coaching uncover themselves over quarters of seasons, or full seasons, and not over single games. And I also *know* that fans here fatuously second guess play calling when they don't like the result of the play without much regard for the actual game situations or adjustments on either side of the ball, and that's just a bad way to go about evaluating the team.
  12. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    They're not limited in terms of play calling. They are limited in terms of the check downs that occur at the LoS as a result of the defense's alignment. But this is true for every HC in the league.

    Probably the first time I've heard a pass refereed to as "high-percentage", but okay, let's agree to disagree on what the correct approach is in a 2nd and 1 situation when you don't even have the lead yet and a field goal isn't an option.

    As a side note, you are referring to this situation as a goal line situation and it wasn't.[/QUOTE]

    You've never heard of a high-percentage pass? Ok. They exist, though.

    That's not what we threw, but it's what I expected us to run coming up to the line given our dismal short yardage running game performance in the two prior goal line situations earlier in the game. (Where we had to resort to the naked boot and the naked boot-TE toss in order to 'punch' it in---both great play calls in that situation, by the way).
  13. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to contradict the OP but yesterday during the five o'clock hour on the Galloway show they had their weekly ask the coach segment.

    I have never heard it before because i work at that time, but went to lunch early and caught it.

    From the coach's own mouth.

    Jason did not call a run play because he conceded the Giants defensive line was better than the Cowboys offensive line at that time. So he opted for something he thought would work.

    Now I'm certain there are folks here that know of this segment, and probably the coach's name. Maybe even heard it.

    Looking at the website for the Cowboys is seems I recall this might have been Jimmy Robinson.

    But he was clear about who called the play.

    And just FYI the slant from Aikman to Irvin was referred to during the broadcasts back in the day as a huigh percentage passing play.
    I too have no link.
  14. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    You've never heard of a high-percentage pass? Ok. They exist, though.

    That's not what we threw, but it's what I expected us to run coming up to the line given our dismal short yardage running game performance in the two prior goal line situations earlier in the game. (Where we had to resort to the naked boot and the naked boot-TE toss in order to 'punch' it in---both great play calls in that situation, by the way).[/QUOTE]

    It doesn't matter what our average is as long as it's over 1 yard per carry. :laugh2:

    We needed one yard with 3 attempts, it's not something that needs to be overanalyzed. If you think they played it well, that's fine. I disagree.
  15. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I disagree too and so does the VAST majority of the football world.
  16. Cowboy4ever

    Cowboy4ever Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter what our average is as long as it's over 1 yard per carry. :laugh2:

    We needed one yard with 3 attempts, it's not something that needs to be overanalyzed. If you think they played it well, that's fine. I disagree.[/quote]


    And if Garrett had ran it 4 times in a row and got stonewalled 4 times in a row, I am sure you would have disagreed with that as well. It seems that the result is what everyone disagrees with, I don't like the results either but to sit there and say it was a horrible call is just not correct. Given the situation, given the Defense, it was not a bad call. It didn't result in what he, you or I wanted but that doesn't make it a bad call.
  17. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Nobody's overanalyzing anything. And I obviously didn't say we nailed it. What I think was that it was a legitimate decision to pass the ball in that situation, and people who think otherwise either weren't watching what happens to a 6'5" C in short yardage and weren't aware that we repeatedly couldn't get that single yard when we needed it against that same front on two different drives earlier in the same game.

    I'm with you, though, in wishing we'd called a play that worked. Unfortunately, the game's complicated and we can't just mail in an analysis by saying we should be calling more stuff that works. Technically, it may be true, but it's just not all that helpful.
  18. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    This is not completely true IMO. I think your point about Dez is valid but everybody knows that the stats on Witten are skewed due to injury. I think that over the last few weeks, he has shown to be recovered and is no longer a risk in the passing game.

    The problem that I have is not who he threw to. It's what has been discussed several times in this and other threads. It's the entire approach we took to the situation. Even if you say that we can't run the ball, which I don't entirely agree with, the point is that you have to run the ball if just to keep the defense honest. I think that it was a serious mistake not to try and run the ball to pick up that first down. It only makes it easier for the defense and by not doing that, you open yourself up to criticism from all directions. That's what you buy when you make the decision not to run the ball. JMO
  19. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    Well you're acting like Otree was running free down the sideline while the corner was off to the sideline having a soda. That throw is a low percentage play at the best of times, let alone when you are hoping an average third wr is the guy you're counting on to win that battle.
  20. Seven

    Seven Messenger to the football Gods

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    Haven't read the whole thread but..........great play call..wrong route.

    The flat was cleared out and Ogletree was supposed to take the inside. He chose the outside, squeezed himself into the corner and left little room for Romo to connect. Go back and look at the play. He takes the inside and it's 6. IF he catches it.



    This is the kind of stuff these guys do, wrong, consistently. Very frustrating.


    Apologies if this has already been noted.

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